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Old 01-08-2014, 12:25 AM   #11
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If a "Saison" or what turns out to be a hoppy sour, and lambic, I will pitch only the souring blend, and pitch very little. If a Flanders I will pitch yeast for a standardish ale type fermentation and add the souring blend at the same time in a reasonable pitch. Brewing sours isn't as much about population its about sugar profile if you ask me. The brett and bacteria cannot really compete at standard temps against sacch. so you need to provide a wort sugar profile that saves sugars for the souring and long haul of maturation.

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Old 01-10-2014, 03:14 AM   #12
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So basically in essence a much higher mash or adjuncts that will be long term food for the bugs?

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Old 01-10-2014, 10:58 AM   #13
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I thought that is why you use unmalted wheat and or flaked wheat. No? I am new at sours too, but that was my understanding.

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Old 01-10-2014, 08:38 PM   #14
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Unmalted/flaked wheat will still convert in a mash it just depends on how you mash it.....its less about whats in the mash and more about how you treat the mash. Of course it matters whats in there but an unmalted grain is just there to provide complex starches instead of cleaved sugar molecules that are formed through a standard mash with the amylase enzymes. So if you don't give the unmalted grain a chance to fully convert because you are using a turbid mash, there will be long term carbohydrate for the yeast and bacteria to hydrolyse sugar molecules off the starch complexes.

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Old 01-14-2014, 06:08 PM   #15
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Back to the original question...
I started with a slant of ECY 20, added 1L of 1.040 wort, stir plate for 3 days, then pitched into a 50 gallon barrel. I would say that is "significant underpitching". So far (6 months in) it is tasting great. Not as strong as my authentic lambic, but its still good.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/50-...-bread-418234/

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Old 01-16-2014, 02:15 PM   #16
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Ive found the same to be true with ecy20. Ive made beers with just lambic bottle yeasts and I like the flavor more than ecy20. Plus the lambic culture made the beer come out drier and more complex. You use pitch rates like me. *high five*

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Old 01-16-2014, 11:40 PM   #17
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1. If I pitch ECY20 into a brown ale with no other yeast, what will it be? Saison? Sour brown?
2. If I use 1/2 the bottle of ECY20 without a starter and have a OG of 1.050 brown, will it ferment correctly?
3. Will it follow the same rules as regular yeast and be around a 5% beer?

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Old 01-17-2014, 01:52 AM   #18
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1. i's say a sour brown. depending on the recipe, it could be a oud bruin (flanders brown). according to the BJCP, saisons aren't brown, use saison yeast (the sacch in ECY20 is either mostly or entirely non-saison) and generally aren't sour.
2. half a vial in 5 gallons? i have no experience with this, but seems pretty damn low. i believe that a full bottle per 5 gals is the recommended pitch rate, so you're looking to go half as much.
3. with the brett and other bugs in there, i'd expect it to go pretty low so you'll likely end up with something closer to 6%.

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Old 01-18-2014, 02:11 AM   #19
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1. I'd say it's a sour brown of sorts. If its amber you can stretch to say it's a saison in my book. Saisons are classified as they are now post pure culture techniques. They were surely aged long periods and sour just like lambics were. I can't imagine when they were very traditionally made by a farmer or a group of farmers that cleanliness was the best. BJCP is stupid to classify a beer with such a rich history into such a small box essentially being something that needs to emulate Dupont.

2. The pitch rate depends on what you're looking for. I've pitched miniscule amounts of yeast for beers and pitched proper amounts with souring cultures depending on what I was going for. If you're doing for something funkier and drier like a saison I'd say a half bottle or so will be plenty. It will get going and it can get going quick.

3. If a regular yeast would produce a beer with about 75% aa this will produce a beer with much more likely 90% and possibly more. So you will not end up with a 5% beer unless you go to great lengths to provide unfermentable sugars through heavy use of caramel malts and long boils to produce melanoidins and extensive kettle caramelization. Otherwise you will end up with a dry sour beer.

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Old 01-18-2014, 01:45 PM   #20
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I plan on pitching one bottle into 15 gallons. We will see what happens...

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