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Old 02-20-2013, 12:49 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Chipman View Post
Won't the cooler temps for serving beer inhibit the growth of the bugs?
Depends on the bug, really. Some, the cooler temps (depending on exactly what temp) will inhibit. Some, the cooler temps will slow, but not stop altogether. Some, likely not even that.

Just think about how often you need to pull everything out of your kegerator/keezer/beer fridge and hose it all down to clean up the mold and other nastiness that builds up over time. Sure, it's not the same bugs that are growing inside the beer, but it's the same basic idea - the cold isn't stopping those from growing, so why would it to stop everything in your beer from growing?
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Old 02-21-2013, 12:37 PM   #22
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i have had the same experience with sour / clean beer, i brew both and have them on tap side by side all the time. none of my equipment is dedicated to sour only brewing, it's all used for whatever i'm doing at the time. on the homebrew level it should be pretty easy to clean and sanitize to avoid cross contamination.
Every beer that has come in contact with any plastic that has been in contact with this bug gets infected.

Like I said nothing (and I mean nothing) gets this bug out of your plastics once it touches it.

I can send you a bottle of this bug, if you would like to try adding it to your equipment, then try to get rid of it.

Cheers
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Old 02-21-2013, 01:08 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by dwarven_stout View Post
The pressure of co2 means nothing. Otherwise, I agree that a good oxyclean + starsan regime is enough to contain most bugs. I share most equipment between wilds and clean beers without issue.

I would suggest to the OP to look elsewhere in the process for potential sources of contamination. I'm particularly interested to know what you (OP) mean by "ice bath" that you're using a colander for.
I never said that I was using a colander for a ice bath, I said I used the colander for making cheese (straining whey out) in the same pot that I cooled the wort down in, after washing and sanitizing the pot.

To answer the first part of your question, an Ice bath to me is when you put a pot full of hot wort into a sink or tub filled with ice and water, a colander is not used at this time.
This link will explain the process in detail, some times I add ice to the proses described in the article below. http://www.homebrewtalk.com/entries/...t-chiller.html

Cheers
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Old 02-21-2013, 01:12 PM   #24
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I just helped a guy with this same problem. It doesn't take sour beer to funk up the whole works. It just takes beer to get into your CO2 lines. Bugs can survive any very harsh conditions. Once beer gets sucked up into your lines, get them clean.

They can't travel, per se, but can be blown through the lines via pressure going to the keg, of back flushed when you release the pressure from a keg that is higher than your regulator setting.

I'm sure all of us take our systems apart every so often to clean them, but most people neglect to take the CO2 lines apart as well. You'd be shocked at how much buildup you get after even a year.

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Old 02-21-2013, 01:33 PM   #25
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I brew several times a week, about half sacc only, half mixed culture. All shared equipment including hoses. i soak in Oxyclean and then star San and no problems. There is no way for a yeast or bacteria to move on its own, much less against the pressure of the co2.
I think maybe you are confusing equalized pressure with flow, once a system is under pressure it equalizes and becomes stable, its much harder to travel up stream against flow than it is to travel under equalized pressure.

Thats why you can walk around in a pressurized cabin of an jet airplane, the pressure isn't holding you down, now if you open the nose and the tail and let the air flow threw, your not going to be able to get up and walk against that flow of air.

I have 3 kegs all connected to a 3 way manifold, the manifold is then connected to a regulator set at a specific pressure, all kegs and the manifold are at the same equalized pressure.

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Old 02-21-2013, 02:10 PM   #26
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I just helped a guy with this same problem. It doesn't take sour beer to funk up the whole works. It just takes beer to get into your CO2 lines. Bugs can survive any very harsh conditions. Once beer gets sucked up into your lines, get them clean.

They can't travel, per se, but can be blown through the lines via pressure going to the keg, of back flushed when you release the pressure from a keg that is higher than your regulator setting.

I'm sure all of us take our systems apart every so often to clean them, but most people neglect to take the CO2 lines apart as well. You'd be shocked at how much buildup you get after even a year.
Thank You KeystoneHomebrew, Im also thinking that my other Co2 hoses and manifold are ok as long as no infected beer has come in contact with them (at-least Im hoping)

I have only had all of my kegging equipment for 3 months now, I don't think any beer infected or not has been sucked back up into the Co2 or manifold as I have been very careful not to introduce a over pressurized keg into the system.

Even when I lowered the pressure to the kegs, I close all 3 valves to the kegs, purge keg pressure, reduce regulator pressure and purge, let regulator and manifold re-pressurize, then open manifold valves going to the kegs.

My concern is that when I take a draw off a un-infected keg, will the pressure differential let the bug go up into the Co2 lines?

Im guessing/pretty sure that this bug is a contact only bug and not airborne, on those lines, any plastic and rubber that has come in contact with the infection (such as ball lock connectors, keg O-rings) will be infected.

I all-ready know for sure that Bleach/Oxiclean/StarSan in any quantity/duration do not kill this bug out of plastic or rubber.

I was just hoping that it didn't crap up the Co2 tank, regulator, manifold, hoses, and the ball lock connectors that have not come in direct contact with it.

And Congrats on 20 years of brewing!

Cheers
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Old 02-21-2013, 02:34 PM   #27
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My concern is that when I take a draw off a un-infected keg, will the pressure differential let the bug go up into the Co2 lines?
It certainly can. The problem zone is when a keg is full enough to reach the gas dip tube. Beer can easily get sucked up just like the liquid tube. But even if you filled it 3/4 of the way, just moving it around splashed some beer onto/into that gas dip tube. To combat this, I tell people to always unhook the gas connection to the keg whenever turning pressure down. Obviously turning it up isn't an issue, just down. If I'm making pressure adjustments to get the serving right, I'll drain the keg of CO2 completely, hook it up at 1-2 psi, then keep dialing it up till I'm happy.
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Old 02-21-2013, 04:28 PM   #28
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Every beer that has come in contact with any plastic that has been in contact with this bug gets infected.

Like I said nothing (and I mean nothing) gets this bug out of your plastics once it touches it.

I can send you a bottle of this bug, if you would like to try adding it to your equipment, then try to get rid of it.

Cheers
i'll take you up on that, part of the reason i brew everything with the same gear is to see if there really is a superbug out there that can't be defeated by a cleaner and star san. if you have that bug i want it for sure.
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:53 PM   #29
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i'll take you up on that, part of the reason i brew everything with the same gear is to see if there really is a superbug out there that can't be defeated by a cleaner and star san. if you have that bug i want it for sure.
eastoak, PM me with your address and next week Ill check into how much it cost to send you a bottle or 2, if the shipping isn't to bad Ill send.

Oh and don't forget to chill and taste, I promise you'll remember it for a very very long time. lol

Hmmm, I wonder if their is a market for a super sour beer?

Cheers
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:10 PM   #30
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I never said that I was using a colander for a ice bath, I said I used the colander for making cheese (straining whey out) in the same pot that I cooled the wort down in, after washing and sanitizing the pot.
Ok. That wasn't clear at all from your original post, so thanks for clearing that up.

I think it's highly unlikely that storing a plastic colander in your pot caused any issues. Since you boil in the pot, you would have killed anything that transferred over.

A few other things to think about as you try to chase down this infection:

1) Make sure you're diluting your cleaners/sanitizers at the proper ratios. Starsan in particular can lose its effectiveness quickly in hard water- if you aren't using distilled water to mix up your starsan, consider switching. Bleach is best used in acidic solution- I don't know if you were adding vinegar to it or not, but there's some helpful topics about that on this forum. Oxyclean seems to work better when you add a little dish soap to the water.

2) try brewing at a friend's house if you can. Fill the carboy there and then bring it home (or leave it there if he's cool with it). Do everything else just how you normally do. What this does is isolate the possibility of an airborne infection in your house.

2a) have your buddy watch you throughout the process and see if he can identify something that you do without thinking about it that could introduce infection into your beer.

3) make sure you've considered all possible sources of infection. You're obviously trying to do this by asking about the kegging lines, so tear those suckers apart and make sure you don't have beer crud up in there. Partially cover your wort during chilling- enough to let steam out, but minimize dust and whatnot landing in it. Don't touch the wort with a wooden paddle or spoon after the boil ends. If you haven't swapped out your airlock stoppers, consider it. Same thing for whatever you use to get hydro samples. How about seals in the kegs?
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