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Old 03-01-2011, 10:10 PM   #1
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Default DMS issue in berliner weisse... boil before bottling?

Think that would fix it? My berliner has a not so good funk in the background that I'm attributing to DMS (though it does kind of remind me of some flavors I've gotten from attempts to harvest saison yeasts, it reminds me a little bit more of vegetables). It's been in a carboy for 2 months, I'd wait a couple more months until the sourness is where I want it, then I'd siphon it off into a kettle and boil for 60min, then replace the water that is lost.

I'm sure some alcohol would boil off but it's such a low percentage to begin with I don't care much.

Salvageable?

Even if it's not, I'll probably try it.

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Old 03-02-2011, 12:18 AM   #2
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*ALL* of the alcohol will boil off.

Alcohol boils at a lower temp than water. As you heat it up, it will sort of stall at 165 or something like that until all the alcohol is gone, and then it will continue heating to a boil.

You'll have non-alcoholic beer when you are done.

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Old 03-02-2011, 12:27 AM   #3
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Was this a no-boil berliner? I don't know what malts you used, but it might just be there from not getting boiled off if you used pilsner or something.

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Old 03-02-2011, 12:27 AM   #4
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What bugs do you have working on it? If it's just Lacto, try adding some Brett bruxellensis.

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Old 03-02-2011, 12:47 AM   #5
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It was a no-boil with pils and wheat. I did a small decoction to raise the temp. I just heated up to 160 then cooled, I thought that DMS couldn't form that way. The sourness is slowly coming along but I'm not sure it'll be drinkable if I don't do something.

The only bug working in there is Lacto... I pitched lacto 2 days before the yeast. How would Brett save the day?

I don't really mind if my berliner winds up being non-alcoholic as I'm not drinking it for the alcohol anyways... though if I can save it without boiling that'd be awesome.

The brett suggestion has me curious.

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Old 03-02-2011, 06:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bovineblitz View Post
It was a no-boil with pils and wheat. I did a small decoction to raise the temp. I just heated up to 160 then cooled, I thought that DMS couldn't form that way. The sourness is slowly coming along but I'm not sure it'll be drinkable if I don't do something.
I guess maybe, but it would be by some method I'm not aware of (and I won't claim to be an expert by any means).

My understanding is that the boil is what's really needed to drive off the DMS. I think just heating to 160 would actually further thermal decomposition of SMM into DMS, since it's heat driven and occurs below boiling point (I think around 140-150F but I'm not sure).

That's just my guess, though. I won't pretend to be a chemist
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:16 PM   #7
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I would suspect that you have some microbe in there that is producing the DMS, rather than DMS from the grain. I’ve done three no-boil Berliners and haven’t had any DMS issues (won medals with the beers etc…). I bring my beers to just below a boil before chilling to make sure whatever microbes are on the grain are killed.

Brett is something I always add, so that is certainly worth a shot. Pitching the Lacto first is risky, a low pH can really stress the primary yeast and cause them to produce weird off flavors . Time may be the answer as well, there are some weird flavors in your sours sometimes.

Good luck

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Old 03-03-2011, 02:17 PM   #8
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Will DMS leave durring an extended aging?

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Old 03-03-2011, 05:12 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldsock
I would suspect that you have some microbe in there that is producing the DMS, rather than DMS from the grain. I’ve done three no-boil Berliners and haven’t had any DMS issues (won medals with the beers etc&hellip. I bring my beers to just below a boil before chilling to make sure whatever microbes are on the grain are killed.

Brett is something I always add, so that is certainly worth a shot. Pitching the Lacto first is risky, a low pH can really stress the primary yeast and cause them to produce weird off flavors . Time may be the answer as well, there are some weird flavors in your sours sometimes.

Good luck
I just picked up a fresh bottle of orval, I'll pitch the dregs soon on your advice. The beer is still on lees right now, I should probably secondary before pitching the orval, right?
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Old 03-03-2011, 05:29 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bovineblitz View Post
I just picked up a fresh bottle of orval, I'll pitch the dregs soon on your advice. The beer is still on lees right now, I should probably secondary before pitching the orval, right?
Might it be autolysis? Two months in primary is a long time for a non-Brett beer.

I tend to rack my Berliners after primary fermentation dies down, Lambics are the only style I leave in primary.
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