New Giveaway - Wort Monster Conical Fermenter!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Lambic & Wild Brewing > different souring meathods




Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-02-2009, 08:47 PM   #1
Donthoseme
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 410
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default different souring meathods

So i have heard several different things about souring beers and i would like to know which meathods impart which flavors. Here is what i've heard.


-collect wort and add 1# pale for 24 hrs to sour and ferment with normal yeast like US-5

-sour wort like above but then add bret to secondary after O2 has been used by yeasties.

-collect wort like normal and ferment with normal yeast then add brett to secondary same as above pretty much

-collect wort like normal and ferment with brett in primary (do i aerate wort? i've heard if you oxygenate then it takes away from the brett character.

Please advise as i'm very green at the wild brews.



__________________
Zombie Brewing Co.

UNDEAD Dunkelweise
Baby Bryce Barleywine
1st Anniversary Ale (Imperial Porter)
Night of The Living Dead Ale (belgian porter) (DECEASED)
Dawn of The Dead Ale (Belgial IPA)(DECEASED)
The Omega Ale (Quad)(DECEASED)
Donthoseme is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-02-2009, 09:50 PM   #2
squeekysheep
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Greenbay, WI
Posts: 276
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

bret works with or without o2, but yes with O2 it doesn't do anything spical



__________________

Battle Axe brewing

squeekysheep is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-02-2009, 10:01 PM   #3
RC0032
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,134
Liked 14 Times on 12 Posts
Likes Given: 11

Default

BB Episode #57 Sour Ales

they added an 8th method...harvesting yeast from a sour you purchase.
__________________
RC0032 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-03-2009, 01:25 AM   #4
JoMarky
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 363
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

other methods include:

Lactic acid producing bacteria
Lactic acid additions

Acids are by definition "sour"

The brett route is more for funk than sour, if youre trying to replicate an ale you had that was sour/funky, most likely the funk came from the brett, and the sour came from a type of lactobacillus bacteria.

Edit: in your post, the 1st method you mention is actually introducing lactobacillus bacteria that naturally exist on grain into the wort. Personally, I'd get a pure culture and control the infection to your tastes

Is there a particular beer your trying to go after? Different types of infections, and even different types of brett, will impart greatly different flavor profiles.

__________________

Last edited by JoMarky; 03-03-2009 at 01:32 AM.
JoMarky is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-03-2009, 01:01 PM   #5
Edcculus
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 4,562
Liked 39 Times on 37 Posts

Default

Quote:
-collect wort and add 1# pale for 24 hrs to sour and ferment with normal yeast like US-5
This is best for souring up a bit of beer for something like a Guiness clone. It won't give you characteristics found in a "wild" beer.

Quote:
-sour wort like above but then add bret to secondary after O2 has been used by yeasties.
If you are doing this, you might as well do # 3

Quote:
-collect wort like normal and ferment with normal yeast then add brett to secondary same as above pretty much
This is the most common way for homebrewers. Ferment for a few days to a week with saccharomyces cerevisiae. Then instead of adding just a brett culture, add in a lambic or flanders blend from one of the liquid yeast producers. The blend contains a mixture of several strains of brettanomyces, pediococcus, lactobacillus and other "bugs". Depending on the type of beer you are producing depends on the ratio of these bugs.

Quote:
-collect wort like normal and ferment with brett in primary (do i aerate wort? i've heard if you oxygenate then it takes away from the brett character.
I believe you are referring to fermenting with 100% brett? It can be done, but will not end up very sour. Lactobacillus contributes sourness in the form of lactic acid to wild beer.
__________________
Edcculus is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-03-2009, 04:00 PM   #6
brewmonger
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 169
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Brett does not produce sourness. Just try Orval sometime -- its bottled with Brett, but its not sour in the least. Brett produces "funk", those barnyard, horsey type aromas that make the beer interesting.

If you want sourness, you need lactic (or acetic + O2) organisms. Or I suppose you can fake it with sour mashing or adding lactic or acetic acid, but the result will not be of the same complexity.

__________________
brewmonger is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-04-2009, 12:17 AM   #7
Edcculus
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 4,562
Liked 39 Times on 37 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmonger View Post
If you want sourness, you need lactic (or acetic + O2) organisms. Or I suppose you can fake it with sour mashing or adding lactic or acetic acid, but the result will not be of the same complexity.
I think lactobacillus is preferred. Lactic acid is much more rounded than acetic acid (vinegar).


__________________
Edcculus is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Souring a Stout Arneba28 General Techniques 8 09-11-2009 06:10 PM
Cross souring Plan9 Lambic & Wild Brewing 2 08-26-2009 04:43 AM
souring agents beenjammin Recipes/Ingredients 1 02-22-2008 03:15 PM
souring by Thermos Jack General Techniques 3 01-15-2008 06:28 PM
Souring digdan General Techniques 3 12-07-2006 01:30 PM