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Old 12-11-2012, 08:09 PM   #1
chip82
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Default Brett vs lacto

Hey guys,

I am looking at starting to sour some beers. I am unsure if I want to use lacto or Brett. Can you recommend me a few good commercial examples of each? Maybe some straight Brett, straight lacto, and a mix

Thanks,
Chip

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Old 12-11-2012, 09:34 PM   #2
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I think it's pretty hard to find all-brett and, especially, all-lacto beers. You're in South Dakota?

If you were near Denver, you could stop into Crooked Stave to find all-brett beers. I know of Ithaca in New York that has done some all-brett beers, too.

If you were in my neck of the woods, you could stop into The Bruery and taste their Hottenroth, which is pretty close to all-lacto (though I've read that it does contain a small amount of brett).

In general, though, no matter where you are, you're going to have a hard time finding these beers. Keep in mind brett, used independently, won't produce a "sour" beer - my all-brett ales come out pretty damn clean, and fruity. Also, some have found that all-lacto beers don't produce the type of sourness they are looking for.

For me, I started with all-brett beers... a pale ale, an IPA, a golden ale (which was racked to secondary with some bacteria). This weekend, I'm trying my hand at a small all-lacto beer. Start experimenting and see what you like.

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Old 12-11-2012, 09:58 PM   #3
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If by all lacto, you mean no yeast at all, then I dont know of commercial examples.

If you mean a sach beer that uses lacto for sourness, I'm pretty sure Bell's Oarsman is a commercial example. From what I understand they basically do a sour mash and then blend to taste.

I don't know how far they distribute the oarsman. I'm only 45 minutes from the brewery so it's readily available around here.

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Old 12-11-2012, 10:55 PM   #4
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Just make some all-brett beers. You can make any style. I think it goes well with simple Saison type recipes. On it's own it works similar to sacc. No long ferments.

Lacto is a little more different. Berliner-Weisse beers are lacto/sacc beers. If you make one, no matter what source of lacto you use, make sure you sour the wort before adding the sacc. That could be several days. I leave mine 5 days. Once the wort becomes acidic, it has protection from other bugs. Most lacto don't like hops, so ensure you keep hops low. I have used Lactobacillus Acidopohilus (probiotic) to sour wort and have learn't from experience that it doesn't like any hops; If the wort has any hops, it will not sour.

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Old 12-11-2012, 11:11 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calder View Post
I have used Lactobacillus Acidopohilus (probiotic) to sour wort and have learn't from experience that it doesn't like any hops; If the wort has any hops, it will not sour.
The preservative qualities of hops would probably interfere. I soured a mini-mash and added it to the wort in my brew kettle. It came out quite good with a nice refreshing twang. I will definitely make it again this spring to save as a summer refresher. I've never used Brett, but I did pick up a Brett fermented ale called Brux just the other day. I haven't cracked it open yet, but plan on doing it during the holidays. I had one yesterday that I think was both lactic and brett. It was a Flanders Brown Ale. I've liked some, but the one I had yesterday was so sweet that it was almost uncomfortable to drink so I had a hard time breaking down the flavors.
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Old 12-12-2012, 12:41 AM   #6
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Wyeast Roselare 3763 or White Labs 665 Flemish Ale Blend

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Old 12-12-2012, 12:48 AM   #7
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Brux is phenomenal. Keep on mind it is fermented with a Belgian yeast and only conditioned with Brett, so the Brett flavors are subtle. But very good nonetheless.

From the homebrewtalk wiki page:

The flavor contributed by Brettanomyces is often called barnyard, but has also been described as gamy, or as smelling like damp wool, leather, wet fur, a sweaty saddle or horse blanket, or a butcher

Lactobacillus produces a sharp, clean sour flavor that pairs perfectly with the simple malt bill and low hop profile and contributes a refreshing lemony tartness.

Keep in mind there are different styles of Brett and lacto, I would recommend checking out White Labs or Wyeast for more details.

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Old 12-12-2012, 01:34 AM   #8
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I inoculated my mini-mash with lacto from about a cup of raw grain in a grain sack--the bateria is already present on the grain. I immersed it in the cooled wort for about twenty minutes, removed and let it run.

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Old 12-12-2012, 10:23 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hopsalot View Post
Wyeast Roselare 3763 or White Labs 665 Flemish Ale Blend
both of those are mixed cultures, so if the OP was looking to work with exclusively either lacto or brett, I wouldn't recommend either of those.
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BootsyFlanootsy View Post
both of those are mixed cultures, so if the OP was looking to work with exclusively either lacto or brett, I wouldn't recommend either of those.
Yeah you want to try the following:

WLP644 Brettanomyces bruxellensis trois (fruity)
WLP645 Brettanomyces claussenii (low intensity)
WLP650 Brettanomyces bruxellensis (traditional barnyard flavors)
Wyeast 5112 Brettanomyces bruxellensis
WLP653 Brettanomyces lambicus (traditional mixed with slight tartness)
Wyeast 5526 Brettanomyces lambicus

WLP677 Lactobacillus Bacteria
Wyeast 5335*Lactobacillus
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