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Old 04-28-2013, 11:44 AM   #1
sockmerchant
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Default Brett on brett

So, there seems to be a consensus that fermentation with any given brett as the primary yeast yields a much cleaner result.

Likewise, that pitching brett in secondary will get you much more funk etc etc

So, question. Say one does a a primary ferment with brett trois. If one is then to use a fresh pitch of the same brett strain in secondary.... what happens?

Does the second pitch produce the more funky characteristics on top of whatever the primary pitch produced? Or do they have a chat with the veterans of the previously won sugar battle and decide to join them at the bottom and have a siesta?

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Old 04-28-2013, 02:25 PM   #2
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My guess is the later - siesta time. But who know.s It's a good thought that might require some testing.

Last summer I did 10 gallons of all-brett blonde that I racked to 3-gallon carboys and added sour dregs to - basically a sour that never saw the likes of Saccharomyces. I last tested it in January, and I don't recall a lot of funk flavors, which you would expect if the secondary Brett reconfigured the primary Brett's flavor profile, but the bacteria did produce a very nice acidity. While this was not really an experiment aimed at what you're suggesting, it is one data point to consider.

I'd be curious to see what others have to say.

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Old 04-29-2013, 12:35 AM   #3
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hmmmm you may be right there.

Need to maybe read up some more, but perhaps the esters produced by brett are different enough from those produced by sacc to not contribute in the same way.

I gather that a lot of the funk during brett secondary comes from the brett using and changing the esters left by the the primary yeast.

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Primary: DIPA, Quick Flanders, RIS, Flanders Red, Oud Bruin x 2, Fijoa Gose
Keg: Gose, Amber/APA
Bottled:Belgian strong ale with brett, Belgian strong ale, Belg Amber, Belg blonde, Belg dark Strong, Belg not-wit, Belg tripel, berry blonde, belg stout, coffee dubbel, chili APA, APA, Belgian Dubbel, Rye (Brett) Saison
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Old 05-02-2013, 01:52 AM   #4
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I would think that the second pitch would add funk to the first pitch. The following is my reasoning, though I am only beginning to get into bretts, so this may not be 100% right.

The first pitch of brett consumes all the simple sugars. In the process, it stops producing the enzymes to break down more complex sugars. This is why starters made from sugar are a bad idea, and why sugar additions are often added mid-fermentation and not in the boil: so the yeast doesn't loose its ability to digest long chain sugars in the abundance of easy meals. This is also why brett is less attenuative when used in primary than it is in secondary, it gets spoiled and lazy.

So if you then pitch a new, active brett starter in this mostly-fermented beer, since it hasn't gotten spoiled and lazy, it should behave the same as if you pitched it in a sacch fermented beer, i.e. create the funk you'd normally expect from using brett as a secondary fermenter. Except since the brett in primary is slightly more attenuative than sacch in primary typically is, there might be a little less complex sugars for the secondary brett to munch on, so the secondary won't be quite as funky as if you pitched brett onto sacch.

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Old 05-02-2013, 03:15 AM   #5
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That is a good point. I was thinking purely from the standpoint of it converting by products left by the primary fermentation.

But yes... There is likely to be more sugars left that the fresh pitch will consume.

Might need an experiment at some point. After primary i'll have to split a batch and pitch some fresh brett into one portion.

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Primary: DIPA, Quick Flanders, RIS, Flanders Red, Oud Bruin x 2, Fijoa Gose
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Bottled:Belgian strong ale with brett, Belgian strong ale, Belg Amber, Belg blonde, Belg dark Strong, Belg not-wit, Belg tripel, berry blonde, belg stout, coffee dubbel, chili APA, APA, Belgian Dubbel, Rye (Brett) Saison
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Old 05-02-2013, 06:10 AM   #6
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I agree with experimenting. Thanks to this hread , I'm planning on repitching Brett L onto a gallon or two of the 100% Brett L that I'm building the starter for.

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Old 05-03-2013, 12:36 AM   #7
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My experience says it will not change if you pitch the same type of Brett. Maybe pitching Brett L after B may work, but my suspicion is that it will not.

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Old 05-29-2013, 11:08 PM   #8
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I think Chad (Crooked Stave) said that the flavors Brett produces have a lot to do with what its eating. So my thought would be that adding Brett on Brett in secondary wouldn't do much. Maybe if you racked early before hitting FG then pitched your secondary Brett there might be more funk producing food for it to munch on.

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