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Old 10-18-2011, 08:01 PM   #1
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Default Bottling sour beer ?'s

My first sour beer - the CYBI Bam Biere clone has been on bugs for 4 months now, and I want to bottle it before it gets too funky.

Finished at 1.004, but still has a crazy pellicle.

What's the best way to bottle this thing? I'd like it farily highly carbonated, say around 3 volumes.. but I'm thinking I should bottle at 2.5 volumes since the bugs will continue to work.

What to do about the pellicle? Do you cold crash it?

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Old 10-18-2011, 08:35 PM   #2
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You can rack from underneath it with out a problem, but I'd be VERY concerned about bottle bombs. If you bottle in champagne bottles, though, you should be fine.

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Old 10-18-2011, 08:44 PM   #3
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I've done some research into what bottles can handle...

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/bott...cities-261268/

So, 3 volumes is maximum to push safely too and that is only if it is a certain type of bottle and noting that each bottling the bottle is a little weaker. So, as SoCo said, I'd be really cautious about the bottle bomb issue.

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Old 10-18-2011, 11:29 PM   #4
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Those bottle ratings seem low especially for the RR 375s. At any rate each gravity point has the potential to contribute .51 volumes of CO2 according to Brau Kaiser. So at 1.004 you could probably prime with sugar for 1-1.5 volumes netting you 3-3.5. I use this method quite frequently. The risk of bottle bombs is not a big one if you over estimate the contribution from residual extract in the beer. You sometimes end up a touch short of your ideal carbonation but that's fairly easy to fix with a sugar solution, some number crunching with a pipette.

I do my "riskier" guesses in heavier bottles like grolsch, champagne, or belgians.

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Old 10-19-2011, 01:24 AM   #5
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:36 AM   #6
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Maybe the sentiments have since changed but this is what I was referring to for the .51vol per point of gravity.


The section I'm speaking of is the last section of residual extract carbonation. I over estimate a tad using this method and have yet to have a bottle blow on me and they have all come out beautifully carbonated.

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php...or_Carbonation

I do understand the calculations I'm not confusing the conversions. Your figures are for 100% fermentable sugar. The important thing to take into consideration is knowing the beer your bottling if you use this method.

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Old 10-19-2011, 01:49 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokinghole View Post
Maybe the sentiments have since changed but this is what I was referring to for the .51vol per point of gravity.


The section I'm speaking of is the last section of residual extract carbonation. I over estimate a tad using this method and have yet to have a bottle blow on me and they have all come out beautifully carbonated.

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php...or_Carbonation

I do understand the calculations I'm not confusing the conversions. Your figures are for 100% fermentable sugar. The important thing to take into consideration is knowing the beer your bottling if you use this method.
So I went back and reworked out the math on a piece of paper, and it seems that we were both wrong. Instead the true Vol CO2 per gravity point, according to the equations in braukaiser is 0.7vol/pt. I'll show the math below, someone let me know if I had another brain fart (they are quite common)

From Braukaiser - for table sugar

Cbeer (g/L Co2) = 0.5 x Sugar (g) / vol Beer (L)

1g/L Co2 = 0.5 Vol Co2

in 1# of sugar there are 42 gravity pts (42pts/16oz = 1pt/0.38oz)

So lets assume were are doing 1gallon of beer, in this case we add 0.38oz of sugar to raise the gravity by 1pt

Now

0.38oz x (28.3grams/1oz) = 10.75grams
1gal = 3.78L

Cbeer(g/L Co2) = 0.5 x 10.75g / 3.78L = 1.42g/L Co2

1.42g/L Co2 x (0.5vol / 1g/L) = 0.71 Vol Co2

So 1pt in 1gal or 1.001 = 0.71 vol Co2

Unless Im missing something (someone please check) it seems that the actual level of Co2 produced per gravity point is actually 0.71
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:59 AM   #8
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That sounds correct for glucose or dextrose. However using the complex solution of sugars malt is comprised of that's not entirely true. The figure is good to use to calculate on the safe side because of the super-attenuation capable with these yeasts/bacteria combos in sours.

I'll take your calculation into consideration in the future because I always figured for a tad more than .51vol to give me a safe buffer.

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Old 10-19-2011, 06:51 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokinghole View Post
Those bottle ratings seem low especially for the RR 375s.
Its what Vinnie said they are rated to hold. Since they degrade after use that means its probably a little less by the time we recycle them. As for the 3 volume of the standard 12 ounce bottles that is directly from Deschutes which if you note the bottle weight is much heavier than normal 12 ounce bottles. Compare that to the light weight Sierra Nevada bottles who told me they are one time use bottles and they do not consider their reuse safe.

Champaigne bottles are the strongest bottle available that I know of.
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Old 10-23-2011, 06:53 PM   #10
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I'm not doubting your research or sources. I use champagne bottles most often but do love me the RR375s. His bottles probably have more glass per ounce of packaged liquid than champagne or even Orval. That would lead me to believe that the bottle is stronger than advertised. However the issue that probably comes into play is the company's insurance and so forth. So if they say a bottle is good for 5 volumes they probably have to test to like 6 volumes (like with air tank hydro tests). Then they probably have a certain percentage as acceptable for failure at that higher test rating.

I've often heard that grolsch and other flip tops can realistically take 4 volumes also. I use them for higher carbonated belgians all the time.

You can't beat champagne bottles though. They're cheaper, fairly easy to source, and will take Belgian corks.

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