Newest Threads

Beerrific · 04-21-2010, 07:35 PM

Filter (probably like .3 micron) and counter pressure fill into bottles. Or filter, and re-dose with sugar and saccharomyces (assuming they will not continue eating the leftover sugars).

If filtering is a dirty word or you don't want to invest the money, you could try filling with just a little sugar and letting the bugs go to work. Let them work on the remaining sugars too, then put them at 0C when the carbonation is about right. They will continue to work, but I would have to guess they will be OK for quite a while before they start to gush or explode.

jessup · 04-21-2010, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryane

thats why its a good idea to fine, chill and add the k-sorbate, as it will stop any bugs from starting up fermentation again

Ive bottled several beers that I blended like this without problems. Ive even bottled a blended beer where all I did was campden the sour portion and allowed the yeast in the clean portion to carb the bottles

are we positive that potassium sorbate kills brett? i was under the impression they lived even when campden is introduced so i'd rather skip right past the campden and use Ksorbate if it works. and that's a damn good idea to just let the clean yeast carb, so simple it's brilliant

SumnerH · 04-21-2010, 10:45 PM

http://home.comcast.net/~mzapx1/FAQ/Sorbate.pdf :

Quote:

Please note that sorbate DOES NOT kill yeast! It only prevents the yeast from budding, and therefore prevents a colony from growing - it merely inhibits renewed yeast activity under the correct conditions. Although sorbate prevents Saccharomyces yeast refermentation, it may not stop an active (or sluggish) fermentation soon enough to prevent sediment in the bottle...
Zygosaccharomyces yeasts (often found in grape concentrate and wineries using concentrate) are NOT inhibited by sorbate, nor are Dekkera/Brettanomyces yeasts. Sorbate also encourages growth of malolactic bacteria, producing a geranium odor if Lactobacilli are the bacteria responsible. Sorbate has a distinct odor (like bubble gum or beeswax) and flavor, which some people do not appreciate though others find acceptable.

The Mad Fermentationist AKA our own Oldsock wrote in his blog back in 2008 that:

Quote:

I have started to play around with killing the Brett with potassium metabisulfite (campden tablets) to stop fermentation before the gravity gets too low, this is a good idea for high gravity beers that would otherwise get too thin. Heat pasteurization and sterile filtration are two other options, but ones I haven’t tried.

So maybe he has some insight on the K-meta approach?

ryane · 04-22-2010, 03:20 AM

SumnerH

So I looked at the first link you provided, and checked into his sources, the sources do not discuss anything related to sorbic acid preservation

In fact brett IS inhibited by sorbic acid, as are Zygosacch

http://www.extension.iastate.edu/NR/rdonlyres/173729E4-C734-486A-AD16-778678B3E1CF/73968/SorbicAcid1.pdf

lacto, and aceto are not however, this is why the campden tablets are used, they will kill bacteria and knock down the yeast,

This is the way Ive had success

1. Chill beer down to ~32F (knocks down yeast and stops most all active metabolism)
2. Fine (further removes suspended yeast/bacteria)
3. Rack
4. Add campden tablets (knocks down remaining yeast/kills bacteria)
5. Add K-sorbate (inhibits active metabolism by disruption proteins involved http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC277315/pdf/jbacter00437-0161.pdf)
Additionally at the low pH most sour beers are at, adding k-sorbate is particularily effective because a majority of it will be present in the form of sorbic acid (the reactive species)

After adding the K-sorbate you can only bottle off a keg, even if you add sacch (which is far more suseptible to inhibition by sorbic acid) nothing will happen

I have talked with Mike aka Oldsock about using campden, and tried it myself after he did it on a brett stout, I blended a very sour batch that I followed steps 1-4 on, with a very malty brown beer, bottled as normal and a good 3gal is still in my cellar, luckily the carbonation has not changed at all

Im not saying this is a definitive way to do it, but in several of the batches Ive done, its worked without a hitch