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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Lambic & Wild Brewing > Berliner Weisse Lacto Attenuation
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Old 04-06-2013, 01:11 AM   #11
ACESFULL
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I take a gal up to 1.5 gal with about a lb of un-milled 2 row then ferment the other half with normal ale yeast generally Safale US05 then blend back once sour mashed portion is done and tart enough. Never had to worry about any nasties. Blanket the carboy with CO2 to avoid any dumpster/diaper pail type odors.

I also mash hop with 1oz of Hallertau pellets.

Works great for me!

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Old 04-06-2013, 02:18 AM   #12
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Well I guess I'll just wait it out and see if I can catch a buzz off it or not. Will definetely save the slurry and reuse if it ends up well.

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Old 04-11-2013, 01:32 AM   #13
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You didn't provide your starting gravity.

I did some research on Wyeast 5335 and lacto fermentation recently but I don't remember most of it. Reading your post I want to assume the activity was dominated by the (wyeast 5335) lacto culture you intentionally pitched. This is partly due to the short fermentation time (ime wild yeast takes more time to kick in) and it visually resembles mostly pure lacto fermentations Ive seen.

I believe Wyeast 5335 is a facultative heterofermentative lactobacilli meaning it produces alcohol and lactic acid (unlike delbrueckii). However it can only ferment certain carbs so it does not produce much alcohol. I too yearned to know how to calculate abv if much of the sugar conversion did not produce alcohol. Mad fermentationist says 10 - 12% for 5335 (not sure if you can post links but Im sure you can find it). So lets say you pitched at 1033, a common grav for bw. A fg of 1010 would be 3%, and 10- 12% of that is 0.3 or 0.4 % abv, which seems right to me.

A little brett in a bw sounds great to me, but why not also just add more wort, and pitch w sach? Seems like that (brett or not) would end up being a pretty go bw. cheers

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Old 04-11-2013, 02:05 AM   #14
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Quote:
"Lactobacillus is an interesting organism. It is known for its rapid fermentation in dairy products, producing all the required acidity for yogurt in just a few hours at high temperature (115-120 F). The problem with using Lacto is the huge range the genus comprises. For example, the*strain sold by Wyeast
*(5335)*is only capable of fermenting about 10-12% of the carbohydrates in a standard wort, not nearly enough attenuation for something resembling beer. LuckilyWhite Labs’ 677 strain
*is capable of producing an enzyme which allows it to ferment maltose, maltotriose, and raffinose, ensuring a dry finished beer without aid. In addition to lactic acid, WLP677 also produces both alcohol and carbon-dioxide, so the result should be similar to a beer fermented with yeast. Even if my attempt to use this particular strain doesn’t work, it may just mean that I have to find a strain that is better suited for the task"

So that states that only 10-12% of the sugars is fermentable by the Wyeast Lacto, not that all will be fermented and only 10-12% of which would become alcohol. So I'm not sure if that was a misunderstanding or if you are refering to something else.

From another thread on this subject:
actic acid bacteria can be divided into two groups based upon the products produced from the fermentation of glucose. Homofermentative organisms ferment glucose to two moles of lactic acid, generating a net of 2 ATP per mole of glucose metabolized. Lactic acid is the major product of this fermentation. Heterofermentative lactic acid bacteria ferment 1 mole of glucose to 1 mole of lactic acid, 1 mole of ethanol, and 1 mole of CO2. One mole of ATP is generated per mole of glucose, resulting in less growth per mole of glucose metabolized. Because of the low energy yields, lactic acid bacteria often grow more slowly than microbes capable of respiration, and produce smaller colonies of 2-3 mm."

So I obviously have Heterofermentative Lacto with the CO2 that was produced. But who knows how much alcohol. I've already pitched the Brett and will let it ride. We'll see how it turns out...

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Old 04-29-2013, 12:45 AM   #15
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hey man, how'd your stuff turn out?

I guess we decided if there's CO2 then there's booze?

I just had an 1809, and it definitely has a brett character I had not realized it had before. It seems to really compliment the tart of the lacto, and dry out the beer with effervescence at the same time.

I still haven't tried SN Brux, but I understand it has plenty of Sacchro so I think your brew should have plenty yeast workers on your side.

I want to add some brett to my next BW. I think I'll do it when I prime next time I do this one. Kind of like what you did. Next time you'll start with higher gravity, right?

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Old 04-29-2013, 07:58 PM   #16
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Mine is actually still in primary. I have been letting this one go for a while because of the complex bugs involved. Also I broke my hydrometer and would really like to get a FG on this before kegging. I've been meaning to try a small sample but havn't gotten around to it yet.

As to whether or not I will bump up the SG on future batches, I don't know. I will wait and see how this comes out first. I will definetely update as I progress with this though.

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