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Old 05-24-2011, 06:52 PM   #21
BenjaminBier
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it depends on how much sour you want... i've soured about 10-20% of my grist using a thinner mash (it gets pretty thick so about 1.5-2.0 quarters per 1.0 lbs of grain)... lacto will smell very sour (and clean if that makes sense) and you can expect it to start to sour after 24 hours for sure... i've never gone beyond 72 hours however...
+1!

I soured 100% of the mash for 48 hours and it will just about rip off your face it is so sour. Blended with a little syrup it's just right

It seemed to me like the sour mash goes through a brief "barnyard smell" phase between the 12-24 hour period and then starts cranking on the bright lemony sour. Did yours go through phases like that?
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Old 05-26-2011, 11:12 PM   #22
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OK. I made a couple of lacto starters with a 1 cup to 1 cup ratio. It's sour. Doesn't really smell barnyardy or like a diaper, so thats a good thing. But it doesn't smell tart either. But whatever.

My question is, do I pour just the liquid of the starter into my fermenter, or all the grains too?

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Old 05-27-2011, 05:36 PM   #23
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Going to brew this in about 3 hours, so any help would be appreciated!

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Old 05-27-2011, 06:07 PM   #24
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a few things you could do at this point;

1) strain the starters, sparge them and toss the liquid into the last few minutes of a boil to end lactic production (limited sour, depending on how big your starters were).

2) strain (no sparge) and innoculate your pre-boil wort at 120 degrees and hold it between 90-110 as long as possible (12-24 hours) to let it grow.

3) strain (no sparge) and innoculate your post boil wort at the same temperatures. i'm doing this for my flanders, but it adds an unsanitary element to your beer.

i'd be inclined to do #3, but i don't mind the risk of infection on certain beers... however, i'd probably likely do #2 so i could control it.

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Old 05-28-2011, 01:27 AM   #25
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I would also do #2, but i'm a little late XD How'd it go?

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Old 06-01-2011, 03:46 AM   #26
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Kind of off topic, but for those of you pitching your lacto before your sacc, how long are you leaving the beer on the entire yeast cake before racking it off?

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Old 06-01-2011, 01:40 PM   #27
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Kind of off topic, but for those of you pitching your lacto before your sacc, how long are you leaving the beer on the entire yeast cake before racking it off?
I'm no expert on this, but have been researching this myself. I brewed mine about a month and a half ago. Pitched the lacto first at around 100F then after 48 hours pitched the European Ale yeast. From what I have read, when it is done fermenting it can be bottled and will sour faster in the bottle, then if left in the primary fermenter. I'm going to bottle mine this week and let it sit in a hot room for another 2-3 months before trying one.
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Old 06-01-2011, 02:23 PM   #28
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I'm no expert on this, but have been researching this myself. I brewed mine about a month and a half ago. Pitched the lacto first at around 100F then after 48 hours pitched the European Ale yeast. From what I have read, when it is done fermenting it can be bottled and will sour faster in the bottle, then if left in the primary fermenter. I'm going to bottle mine this week and let it sit in a hot room for another 2-3 months before trying one.
I wouldn't do this! The Lacto can keep eating long after the yeast is done. If you do this too soon, it will create bottle bombs! If you do this, I you do bottle, I recommend Belgian Bottles.

What I recently did for my BW is make a lacto starter about a week in advance with some grain. I did a no boil mash, drained into my kettle and cooled to about 100 degrees. I then added my lacto and let it sit in the fermenter.

After about 12 hours, I had a nice krausen line of Lacto. Airlock was bubbling away rappidly. After 48 hours, I added some US-05 Dry yeast. The Lacto had eaten about 65% of the sugar at that point I believe.

I tasted this morning, It's sour, but not too much to be off the style. Since mine was an Imperial BW (around 1.050, I found this to be nice). You could go 72 hours or longer depending on how sour you want it.

Anyways, just a thought.
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Old 06-01-2011, 03:07 PM   #29
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I wouldn't do this! The Lacto can keep eating long after the yeast is done. If you do this too soon, it will create bottle bombs! If you do this, I you do bottle, I recommend Belgian Bottles.
I'm a little confused on this topic. I thought I read some where that lacto will not cause bottle bombs, while brett could if it is not finished. My original intention was to let it sit for 3-4 months, but I swore I read last week it can be bottled after primary fermentation is done. Although, now I conveniently can't locate that information. The gravity is at 1.003 and hasn't changed for over a month. I only used White Labs Lactobacillus Delbrueckii Bacteria WLP677 and White Labs European Ale WLP011.

If I find any of this information again I'll edit this post. Can anyone shed any light on this subject?

EDIT: I was reading this thread http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/ber...weisse-235718/ The bottle type isn't mentioned, I assumed normal long necks.
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Old 06-08-2011, 01:13 AM   #30
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just to top the thread, i bottled BW1 because it was done (lacto post boil, 48 hours, then US-05) and i'm probably gonna try it tonight even tho it'll be undercarbed.. the WL berliner blend however i racked off the yeast cake (under a significant krausen) and was going to bottle it immediately but couldn't - been sitting for a week and it has formed a lacto pellicle which i'm not too pleased about but am happy to wait i guess (the beer tells you when it's done)... i'll wait until it's stopped forming or it's dropped.

to answer your question boralyl, lacto can create over-carb because it does eat sugar and make CO2 but only (imo) if it's added post boil as its intended. there's a huge difference between lacto-d and lactic acid. we're shooting for lactic acid, in order to create bottle bombs you'd need to pitch lacto-d and bottle it prematurely. the reason people pitch lacto first is to make sure it creates lactic acid and THEN ferment out (to create alcohol)

frankly i'm done with this method, for "quick sours" i'm convinced sour mash is the way to go... theoretically you could sour mash and bottle a sour in a few weeks. there's no lacto-d to keep eating post-boil.

brewing an oud bruin tonight and doing exactly that, sour mashed 15% of the grist for 96 hours (too long, 72 max imo) and will add it to the boil late and let it roll for 5 minutes only... of course i'm pitching pedio/lacto/brett-b,c/sacc so it'll sitt for 8 months+ likely...

although i'm considering letting the lacto part of the mash boil off and then add it at flame out... what could go wrong? lol...

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