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Old 03-06-2013, 03:04 PM   #81
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I recently visited Cigar City and they had a kumquat Berliner Weiss and holy crap it was delicious. I have an email into the brewer asking him on some details but so far I'm leaning towards this

50/50 continental pils malt and white wheat
Mash hop to about 5 Ibus Mash at around 150
Abbreviated boil to drive off DMS and to isolate the souring agent
Add a handful of Kumquats at flameout
Cool and pitch homemade lacto starter and keep wort in the 90ish degree range for 2-3 days
Cool down to high 50's and pitch Kolsch Yeast

Normal process from here on out and depending on the level of kumquat flavor I may "dry hop" with some kumquats that I have previously frozen and thawed for 5-7 days. Probably shooting for a 4-6 week grain to glass turn around.


This beer was seriously delicious and I can only imagine hot weather makes it even better.



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Old 03-06-2013, 05:20 PM   #82
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Kumquat is a nice idea!! Dieu du Ciel recently done a kumquat IPA (i think with mosaic hops) and a friend of mine just from orange to kumquat in his witbeer, yesterday, I cant wait to taste it!



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Old 03-07-2013, 04:18 PM   #83
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I'm planning on doing a sour mash, starting tonight. I like this idea of using 10% Aciduated malt to drop the Ph to 4.3, which is where lactobacillus wants to be, but not some of the other nasties that live on grain. Has anyone done this successfully? I will be adding the whole grain in a hop bag to my wort (vice in the actual mash).

Regarding DMS, I don't think it's a problem -- even with Pils malts. The boil does drive off DMS, but it's also the boil that creates the DMS. There's some discussion here that says DMS still isn't a problem in a pasturization boil (i.e. <15 minutes).


...very glad I found this thread, though!! I may have to attempt this one a few times. Has anyone used Rye vice Wheat?
(Also... planning on trying this brew out on my wife - who won't touch beer).

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Old 03-07-2013, 10:16 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by malweth View Post
I'm planning on doing a sour mash, starting tonight. I like this idea of using 10% Aciduated malt to drop the Ph to 4.3, which is where lactobacillus wants to be, but not some of the other nasties that live on grain. Has anyone done this successfully? I will be adding the whole grain in a hop bag to my wort (vice in the actual mash).
I used that exact method for my first and only (so far) Berliner. It worked out very well I thought. It won the Sour Ale category at my local competition recently out of 9 entries in that category.

Though, i just threw in a handful of uncrushed grain with the acid malt and let it sit at 95F for about 4 days. I covered with saran wrap as tight as i could to keep out any O2. I didn't get any of the vomit smell that I've heard can happen during a sour mash. I didn't use a hop bag or anything. Once i sparged, i did a 15 min boil with a random ounce of hops and then fermented it with WYeast 1056. It's delicious.

If i do it again I will mash with more water and sparge with less. I thin the sparge water diluted the sour a little too much.

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(Also... planning on trying this brew out on my wife - who won't touch beer).
My wife is the exact same way about beer. However, she LOVES the berliner. She also generally likes sour/tart things so that helps. She liked sour beer before I did.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:27 PM   #85
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Sour mash seems to be very popular, i should try it for the second batch so I can compare.

I'm thinking... If I keep a lacto culture alive in a jug, eich I will do... What about putting some of lacto starter to the mash instead of raw grains?

I understand that there is lacto on the grain, bit you can't never know which strain you get...

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Old 03-08-2013, 12:13 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by zeekage View Post
I used that exact method for my first and only (so far) Berliner. It worked out very well I thought. It won the Sour Ale category at my local competition recently out of 9 entries in that category.

Though, i just threw in a handful of uncrushed grain with the acid malt and let it sit at 95F for about 4 days. I covered with saran wrap as tight as i could to keep out any O2. I didn't get any of the vomit smell that I've heard can happen during a sour mash. I didn't use a hop bag or anything. Once i sparged, i did a 15 min boil with a random ounce of hops and then fermented it with WYeast 1056. It's delicious.
I wonder if the acid malt lowered the PH to a level where the Clostridium isn't active.
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:14 PM   #87
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I wonder if the acid malt lowered the PH to a level where the Clostridium isn't active.
That's basically what the article says. If I remember right every 10% acid malt lowers the pH by 1. So the goal is a pH of about 4.3 or so which they implied was low enough to inhibit most "bad" bugs.
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:31 PM   #88
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Each percentage of acid malt should be about 0.1 pH high proportions make it taste yogurty in my experience. I used 25% last spring in a saison.

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Old 03-08-2013, 08:33 PM   #89
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has anyone successfully avoided the rancid smell from a sour mash by just flushing with co2?

my 36hour mash smelled terrible despite flooding the cooler with co2 each time i added more water and after adding the grain to inoculate. thankfully the smell boiled off and SWMBO loved the final beer so I can do it again

going to try the plastic wrap method next time

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Old 03-08-2013, 08:54 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terrapinj
has anyone successfully avoided the rancid smell from a sour mash by just flushing with co2?

my 36hour mash smelled terrible despite flooding the cooler with co2 each time i added more water and after adding the grain to inoculate. thankfully the smell boiled off and SWMBO loved the final beer so I can do it again

going to try the plastic wrap method next time
I think part of the reason I didn't get the rancid smell was that I didn't add water to the mash at all. I used a mini personal heater from amazon inside my ferm chamber to keep my cooler MLT up at about 95-100F for the whole time. If you add water you're adding o2 even if its small amounts. I think the o2 is what causes the rancid smell but I might be wrong on that.

That being said when I do this again I will be doing a much thinner mash so that I sparge with less. I feel like the sparge cut the sourness a little too much.

I also want to try lacto in primary sometime too to see if it gives a better sour was that the sour mash method.

"Many ways" indeed!! This is a fun beer to brew and drink!


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