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Tiroux · 02-06-2013, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weirdboy

I did a sour mash over this past weekend. It smelled bad after an overnight ~105F rest, and after ~2 days of that it smelled truly horrific. There were people walking by across the street holding their noses when I did the boil. Taste was fine, though. Nice level of lactic acid in there, I thought. I split roughly 4:3 into two fermenters. I had originally wanted to pitch with regular ol' saccharomyces, but then I got to thinking about how I would like a bit more complexity in there, so I pitched one with WLP665 (Sour Mix 1) and the other I dumped the dregs from a bottles of Russian River Supplication and Fantome Saison Printemps. So, maybe it won't be quite like a Berliner Weiss.

Also, due to the smell, my original plan of keeping them in the house to stay warm sort of fell through, because I'd like to stay married. So, they've been in the garage in the 60's instead.

So I guess that puts me in 5b.

That looks nice! I decided to go with Brettanomyces instead of Saccharomyces to add complexity, after I read a lot about Brett primary fermentation (that can be different to a secondary brett fermentation).

I just pitch a WLP665 into a 1060 50/50 wheat/Pilsen wort. But I've been told that you have to wait 12-18 months before even thinking to rack it off to secondary, because every bacteria/yeast have to wait and take its turn.

**weirdboy** · 02-06-2013, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiroux

That looks nice! I decided to go with Brettanomyces instead of Saccharomyces to add complexity, after I read a lot about Brett primary fermentation (that can be different to a secondary brett fermentation).

I just pitch a WLP665 into a 1060 50/50 wheat/Pilsen wort. But I've been told that you have to wait 12-18 months before even thinking to rack it off to secondary, because every bacteria/yeast have to wait and take its turn.

My club made a sour Belgian quad that was aged in a cabernet barrel a couple of years ago. We brewed it somewhere around this time of year I think, let it ferment with a clean sacc strain before dumping everyone's individual batches (some people had trouble and their stalled around 1.030ish) into the barrel and pitching souring stuff. One of the things we pitched was a 2L starter made with WLP665, along with some dregs from a few bottles of Consecration, and maybe something else I cannot remember. After about 3-4 months, you could get a tart aroma, but not much tartness in the actual beer. After 6-8 months it had developed a nice tartness that I would describe as primarily lactic, and a reasonable level of complexity. After another 4-6 months (maybe 10-12 months total) it had developed into a richly complex flavor and aroma. We have been pulling the occasional keg or two from it and topping off with fresh batches of wort (sometimes fermented with sacc, sometimes not) since around the 6 month mark. It has done very well in competition and won a gold medal in category 16 in the last comp we submitted it to, which had over 40 entries in that category.

Tiroux · 02-06-2013, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weirdboy

My club made a sour Belgian quad that was aged in a cabernet barrel a couple of years ago. We brewed it somewhere around this time of year I think, let it ferment with a clean sacc strain before dumping everyone's individual batches (some people had trouble and their stalled around 1.030ish) into the barrel and pitching souring stuff. One of the things we pitched was a 2L starter made with WLP665, along with some dregs from a few bottles of Consecration, and maybe something else I cannot remember. After about 3-4 months, you could get a tart aroma, but not much tartness in the actual beer. After 6-8 months it had developed a nice tartness that I would describe as primarily lactic, and a reasonable level of complexity. After another 4-6 months (maybe 10-12 months total) it had developed into a richly complex flavor and aroma. We have been pulling the occasional keg or two from it and topping off with fresh batches of wort (sometimes fermented with sacc, sometimes not) since around the 6 month mark. It has done very well in competition and won a gold medal in category 16 in the last comp we submitted it to, which had over 40 entries in that category.

That confirms what I said.. and it's great news! I pitched it as a primary fermentation, so we'll see what is gonna do. Now afters fews days, it's bubbling like crazy, I had to install a blowoff tube in the middle of the night. I think it's the Sacch attacking the very fermentable wort.

tennesseean_87 · 02-07-2013, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiroux

Well, 7% Acid malt seems to be a normal amount to balance pH to a desirable range. So, unless you are starting with a already acidic water, it wouldn't give any sour/acidic beer. And Saccharomyces doesn't like low pH environment. It more seems like a Light Weizen / German Wheat Ale, than a Berliner Weisse.

My guess would be a nice smooth and light beer, but nothing near a sour or acidulated beer. I'm still really interested to hear about the results. Please let us know!

According to the water primer, 2-3% is for PH ballance, and you should be able to taste 7% I would think you'd need more for a soured beer, though.

aknox · 02-07-2013, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coff

A little while back a friend and I split a Berliner and fermented it 2 different ways. He pitched a vial of WLP Lacto for 48 hrs warm then Sacc, I tossed a handful of Pilsner malt into primary and kept it warm for 48 hours then picthed sacc.

His has no sourness whatsoever, just turned out strange. Mine is sharply acidic, almost too sour, at one point it had an aroma that was a little off putting. So I pitched a little bit of Brett Trois and it cleaned up the aroma brilliantly. Its a VERY sour berliner weisse but is pretty refreshing. Grain to glass ~4 months.

Next time I will do a Lacto start from grains and not throw the grains into primary.

i made a starter with a cup of crushed grains and 100 degree water. i let it sit with a heating pad for a week and it had the sour apple smell. when i pitched it into my primary, i used a strainer and did not really get any of the yeast cake separated from the grains into the carboy, only the liquid from the starter. it did not take off in 48 hours so i added some wyeast lacto. my main question here is how do you get the yeast cake into the carboy without getting any grain in? i was told not to get any grains in when i pitched and i also didn't stir the mason jar. i think i should have to stir up the yeast on the bottom.

adamjackson · 02-08-2013, 04:42 PM

Followed 1C for mine. Fermentation at 70 for 3 months and 2 weeks...this was TOO long. It's too sour to drink more than a glass at a time. That lacto really took off.

Tiroux · 02-08-2013, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamjackson

Followed 1C for mine. Fermentation at 70 for 3 months and 2 weeks...this was TOO long. It's too sour to drink more than a glass at a time. That lacto really took off.

Serve it with a little drop of raspberry syrup in the glass maube

adamjackson · 02-08-2013, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiroux

Serve it with a little drop of raspberry syrup in the glass maube

last 6 months, secondary received rhubarb and strawberry additions so maybe they're too blame for this intense sour bomb?

Tiroux · 02-08-2013, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamjackson

last 6 months, secondary received rhubarb and strawberry additions so maybe they're too blame for this intense sour bomb?

Oh, maybe.. If lacto was dominant, it ate the fruits sugars, I guess. Or the fruits brang another source of contamination. If your abv was low, it might be possible.

**gregoreckbrews** · 02-11-2013, 03:20 PM

I just brewed a Berliner Weisse using method 2a:
2a - Normal mash + single fermentation, but pitching lactobacillus few days before pitching saccharomyces

My experience so far:
5 Gallons
Grain Bill: 3.5lbs Pilsner, 3.5lbs Wheat OG=1.036
~5 IBUs from Tinseth equation: 1oz Tettnang @ 7.5mins
(Was going to do a 15min boil, but scared of DMS concerns others had posted. Went with a 45min boil.)

I made about a 1L lacto starter (Wyeast 5335). After cooling the boiled wort to 100F, I pitched the entire starter. The fermenter was placed in plastic bin of water. The water in the bin was maintained at about 90F with a submersible aquarium heater. After about 30 hours, I started to see regular airlock activity. I took a small sample this morning (40 hours after pitching). It was slightly sour. Tasted like unfermented wort with a mild tartness. I will continue to sample until it reaches desired sourness. Probably another day or two based on the reports I have read from others using this method.

Last night, I made a 1L yeast starter (WLP 011-European Ale). My plan is to cool the beer down to 65 or so once the lacto has sufficiently soured it, and then I will pitch the yeast.