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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Lambic & Wild Brewing > Berliner Weiss, many ways
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Old 02-02-2013, 02:31 AM   #31
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I pitch a Vial of Lacto in 2.5gal of wort (preboiled), which I keep at 80*F for 1-2 weeks. (it's pretty much the higher I can go at this time)

I pitch a vial of Brett in 2.5gal of wort (preboild), wich I keep at 75*F for the same 1-2 weeks.

Since it's a fairly low density wort (1030), pretty much all the sugars should be consumed after 2 weeks. Lactic acid on one side, Alcohol on the other side. Then I blend together and let it another week or two so the fermentation can continue/finish. Then bottle, and drink.
The Lactobacillus will only sour to a certain concentration. After that it goes into it's dormant phase. If you only sour half the batch and then blend, you end up diluting and getting only half the sourness (you dilute the lactic acid by 2X).

Depending on the Lactobacillus strain (and the make up of the beer), it may or may not continue souring. If it does continue souring, it will be very slow due to the presence of alcohol and possibly hops.

If you sour the whole lot first, and then ferment, with yeast, you will get more sourness quicker.
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:43 AM   #32
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The Lactobacillus will only sour to a certain concentration. After that it goes into it's dormant phase. If you only sour half the batch and then blend, you end up diluting and getting only half the sourness (you dilute the lactic acid by 2X).

Depending on the Lactobacillus strain (and the make up of the beer), it may or may not continue souring. If it does continue souring, it will be very slow due to the presence of alcohol and possibly hops.

If you sour the whole lot first, and then ferment, with yeast, you will get more sourness quicker.
Ok, that's good to know. The more I'm thinking, the more I think I won't put any hops.

It might not be very sour, but the brett would give a pretty nice aroma too, so... I will see. There's a guy here who won several gold medals for his BW with this method. It's a test batch, we'll see!
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Old 02-04-2013, 05:36 PM   #33
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I did option 1C, no boil, 1/2 oz stale hops thrown into the mash. I racked and bottled after about a month, and it was very sour. I then made another batch dumped it onto the yeast cake. I threw in two cans of Raspberry puree after two weeks. It made a very very light beer almost translucently pink... high carbonation. My wife says it tastes like a wine cooler crossed with sweet tarts.

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Old 02-04-2013, 05:51 PM   #34
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I've done about 5 batches using 5a. I kept the first few in a fridge with a light to keep it at ~100-110F. This sours it VERY quickly. I'm talking 2 days and it's really sharply acidic. I also did it at room temp and it took ~4 days. You'll get weird creamed corn/garbage flavors, especially if you keep it hot, this is a good sign.

I throw my wort in a home depot bucket, put a layer of saran wrap on the liquid to minimize O2 and taste it daily. Quick 15 minute boil, a few hops, ferment with sacc (i've done a kolsch yeast, 001, and dregs from Sierra Nevada/Russian River BRUX) and you're bottled in a week, drinking in 10 days.

Mine are always equal parts pilsner and wheat malt. Sometimes leaning more towards wheat. Low ABV ~3%. I've added fruit successfully too (~1 pineapple chopped in 2 gallons).

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Old 02-04-2013, 07:05 PM   #35
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I plan on doing a berliner here soon. my plan is to make a four gallon batch and then use us-05 or something. then do a 1 gallon 2 day sour mash and simply add it to the other batch. so in total it will be a 5 gallon batch.

something like
3 lbs wheat
3 lbs pilsner
1 lb munich

mash hop 1 oz hallertau

let it ferment out for 6 months i think.

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Old 02-04-2013, 09:57 PM   #36
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Okay, i looked around a lot, and I had great informations from Neva Parker at White Labs, so I'm set now.

3 lb pilsen malt
3 lb wheat malt

No hops (lactobacillus dont like hops)

150*F mash

20m boil

Pitch a 1L starter of Brettanomyces Claussenii in 2.5g of wort

Pitch a 1L starter of lactobacillus (anaerobic starter) in 2.5g of non-oxygenated wort.

After 1-2 weeks (depending on the temperature i can hold), i blend the two halves in a secondary vessel until gravity stabilizes. I guess something around a month or so.

Bottle with priming sugar to get 3.0-3.5vol of CO2, them wait 3-4 weeks for brett to do their job, them drink!

I'll maybe repitch wort on the lees when I transfert to secondary.

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Old 02-06-2013, 03:30 PM   #37
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I just did a quicky Berlinner Weiss last weekend with Aciduated Malt. One hour mash for the normal grains, then an additional one hour mash with aciduated malt at 7% of the grist.

2 liter starter with German Ale yeast.

This process was recommended to me by a pro brewer who makes a very good Berlinner Weiss that he turns around in 2 weeks. He gave me the process, but wouldn't give me the proportions, so I researched a little and came up with some educated guesses. I have no idea how it's going to turn out, but the lactic acid should definitely tart the beer. I'm going to rack onto raspberries on Friday.

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Old 02-06-2013, 04:14 PM   #38
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I did a sour mash over this past weekend. It smelled bad after an overnight ~105F rest, and after ~2 days of that it smelled truly horrific. There were people walking by across the street holding their noses when I did the boil. Taste was fine, though. Nice level of lactic acid in there, I thought. I split roughly 4:3 into two fermenters. I had originally wanted to pitch with regular ol' saccharomyces, but then I got to thinking about how I would like a bit more complexity in there, so I pitched one with WLP665 (Sour Mix 1) and the other I dumped the dregs from a bottles of Russian River Supplication and Fantome Saison Printemps. So, maybe it won't be quite like a Berliner Weiss.

Also, due to the smell, my original plan of keeping them in the house to stay warm sort of fell through, because I'd like to stay married. So, they've been in the garage in the 60's instead.


So I guess that puts me in 5b.

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Old 02-06-2013, 04:40 PM   #39
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Flushing the mash tun head with CO2 helps with the smell. It still smells but not bad, more of a cooked corn smell. I managed to have mine in the basement for 36 hours and the wife didn't complain. You could smell it upstairs and when you came into the house.

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Old 02-06-2013, 05:26 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by TopherM View Post
I just did a quicky Berlinner Weiss last weekend with Aciduated Malt. One hour mash for the normal grains, then an additional one hour mash with aciduated malt at 7% of the grist.

2 liter starter with German Ale yeast.

This process was recommended to me by a pro brewer who makes a very good Berlinner Weiss that he turns around in 2 weeks. He gave me the process, but wouldn't give me the proportions, so I researched a little and came up with some educated guesses. I have no idea how it's going to turn out, but the lactic acid should definitely tart the beer. I'm going to rack onto raspberries on Friday.
Well, 7% Acid malt seems to be a normal amount to balance pH to a desirable range. So, unless you are starting with a already acidic water, it wouldn't give any sour/acidic beer. And Saccharomyces doesn't like low pH environment. It more seems like a Light Weizen / German Wheat Ale, than a Berliner Weisse.

My guess would be a nice smooth and light beer, but nothing near a sour or acidulated beer. I'm still really interested to hear about the results. Please let us know!
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