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Old 09-17-2013, 11:33 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by terrapinj View Post
easy there - wasn't trolling and wasn't trying to be negative - i have no idea what your background is nor does it matter in this situation.

i simply stated a fact; you are concerned about bugs in your mash tun when in fact you introduce them everytime you use it to mash - you expressed fears about ruining your MLT from doing a sour mash and i simply pointed out that you are doing so expose it to bugs and wild yeast everytime you use it - no need to be defensive about it
The idea is to not cause any problems down the line. If you read my post you would have seen that I only mention not infecting my mash tun because I noticed a pellicle had still formed in my fermenter post boil, so I'm very glad that I had isolated the sour mash. What's the cost of a 5 gallon bucket? Like $5, so why risk it with a mash tun that cost much more in both time and money to build. I think the bucket mash went very well considering I was able to hold temp for 6 days. No need to come in here and hate on a process that worked perfectly.
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Old 09-17-2013, 11:36 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by Whalewang View Post
He told you the truth.



Do you mean that you received a BSChE? Well, that is indeed impressive.



Obviously.
You're an even worse troll. This forum is meant to help people. I simply told someone what I did that worked and some of the reasoning behind it. You simply insulted people and offered nothing to the discussion.
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Old 09-17-2013, 11:59 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by fc36
You're an even worse troll. This forum is meant to help people. I simply told someone what I did that worked and some of the reasoning behind it. You simply insulted people and offered nothing to the discussion.
I just read your process. How do you explain the pelicle in the fermentor in beer that was boiled for 15 min? That had to be a post boil/chill contamination that can't seem to have anything to do with the mash vessel, either the one you used or the one you didn't use...

I also agree with posters who said you weren't being trolled...no need for getting snarky about it...it is common noob (and I'm not calling you that!) misconception that the mash tun should be sanitized, even when working with non-sour beers. This is simply a huge waste of sanitizer and shows a poor understanding of the mash. We all know the raw grain is covered with wild bugs, that's why we can use it to sour wort. Mash can't possibly be sanitary, neither can the container that holds it.
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Old 09-18-2013, 12:34 PM   #294
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I do not and never have used sanitizer pre boil. Sanitizing pre boil on any beer is simply folly and waste. I put away everything clean and then just rinse and clean before use and sanitize only items used post boil. I just mentioned my observations from my batch that went well mind you.

EDIT: My best guess for the source of infection was my well used auto-siphon (at the time). I have since switched to an eBIAB with a ss chugger pump. I still use my old rig from time to time for things like sour beers, just to avoid any complications, but I did buy a new auto-siphon. And for what it's worth, most commercial breweries use completely separate systems and even brewhouses for brewing sour beers vs sacch beers, so it's not that crazy of an idea.

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Old 10-03-2013, 02:22 AM   #295
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So I tried culturing lacto from some uncrushed 2-row malt. This is the third time I've done this. The first time went okay, but I didn't let it get sour enough for my liking. The second time was the best beer I've ever made. This time I'm trying essentially what I did last time, but with a partial mash.
I'm having an issue though. After pasteurizing the beer to ferment normally, my gravity is now 1.018. The actual OG should have come out to about 1.039 (assuming 60% efficiency, which is what I typically get doing a BIAB partial mash.) While I had the wort souring outside in the heat, there was tons of bubbles in the airlock and fermentation seemed really active. Is it possible that there was a big enough wild yeast count to actually ferment half of the sugars in the beer, or is it possible that lacto could eat that much sugar?
Anyway, when I pasteurized, I kept it at 145 degrees F, which should not have driven off any possible alcohol in there, so hopefully everything is just fine.
Has anyone else had any experience with a significant gravity drop from souring with grain?

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Old 10-04-2013, 09:40 PM   #296
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I've always been told that you need to boil pilsner for 90min to get the DMS out of the wort. If that is true then why does the no boil method work? Wouldn't it be full of DMS? Maybe I'm missing something.

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Old 10-04-2013, 11:49 PM   #297
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As has been said in this thread several times, Pilsner has DMS precursors that are then converted to DMS starting at temps just above sparge temps. As long as you don't ever reach 175 degrees, you won't get any DMS.

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Old 10-05-2013, 03:59 AM   #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inflictor-of-grimness View Post
So I tried culturing lacto from some uncrushed 2-row malt. This is the third time I've done this. The first time went okay, but I didn't let it get sour enough for my liking. The second time was the best beer I've ever made. This time I'm trying essentially what I did last time, but with a partial mash.
I'm having an issue though. After pasteurizing the beer to ferment normally, my gravity is now 1.018. The actual OG should have come out to about 1.039 (assuming 60% efficiency, which is what I typically get doing a BIAB partial mash.) While I had the wort souring outside in the heat, there was tons of bubbles in the airlock and fermentation seemed really active. Is it possible that there was a big enough wild yeast count to actually ferment half of the sugars in the beer, or is it possible that lacto could eat that much sugar?
Anyway, when I pasteurized, I kept it at 145 degrees F, which should not have driven off any possible alcohol in there, so hopefully everything is just fine.
Has anyone else had any experience with a significant gravity drop from souring with grain?
As far as I know, sour beers are harder to understand via gravity readings than clean beers. When we think of drops in gravity in clean beers, the assumption is that the bulk of the drop in gravity is due to sugars being replaced with ethanol. However, in sour beers a substantial amount of the sugar is replaced with lactic acid. Without having a good sense of what portion of the sugar is replaced with lactic acid versus ethanol or how the dissolved lactic acid will impact the gravity, the case is a bit hopeless. I once read that "lactic acid has a similar specific gravity to sugar", for what's it worth, but I would think it's worth nothing since sugar doesn't have a specific gravity (i.e. a pound of sugar in a gallon of water has a specific gravity, and it's not clear under what conditions of dissolution lactic acid has a similar specific gravity to sugar).
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Old 10-05-2013, 04:59 AM   #299
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As far as I know, sour beers are harder to understand via gravity readings than clean beers. When we think of drops in gravity in clean beers, the assumption is that the bulk of the drop in gravity is due to sugars being replaced with ethanol. However, in sour beers a substantial amount of the sugar is replaced with lactic acid. Without having a good sense of what portion of the sugar is replaced with lactic acid versus ethanol or how the dissolved lactic acid will impact the gravity, the case is a bit hopeless. I once read that "lactic acid has a similar specific gravity to sugar", for what's it worth, but I would think it's worth nothing since sugar doesn't have a specific gravity (i.e. a pound of sugar in a gallon of water has a specific gravity, and it's not clear under what conditions of dissolution lactic acid has a similar specific gravity to sugar).
Which would mean that the gravity of my berliner should be higher than the amount of sugar left in it. But it's all the way down to 1.015. I'm pretty sure there's some wild yeast living on my grain.
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Old 10-09-2013, 03:24 AM   #300
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In principle, you would expect a higher gravity reading, but without having more knowledge about the dissolution of lactic acid in water and bugs' metabolic pathways, there's no way for me to say for sure. Someone else probably has that knowledge though, I just meant to point out that it's a subtle subject. If you cultured bugs from grain then you almost certainly have a diversity of microbes in your beer.

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