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Tiroux · 01-31-2013, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bknifefight

I recently did the sour mash/ferment with ale yeast method you had as 5a. The sourness was right on after about 36 hours of the sour mash. 15 minute boil with 1/2 ounce of Hallertau. Being so low of an OG, it was fermented out in no time. Including the sour mash, I could have had this from grain to glass in a week, seriously. Oh, and 5 gallons cost about $10.

Yhea, this method sounds pretty nice too. It might be a way always keep a good stock of really-easy drinkable beer. I will probably will give it a try, but I guess it's a pretty different beer from the one I would make with lacto/brett fermentation. I'll probably give a try to both.

At what t° did you hold the mash during souring? And how (where?)

Coff · 01-31-2013, 06:39 PM

A little while back a friend and I split a Berliner and fermented it 2 different ways. He pitched a vial of WLP Lacto for 48 hrs warm then Sacc, I tossed a handful of Pilsner malt into primary and kept it warm for 48 hours then picthed sacc.

His has no sourness whatsoever, just turned out strange. Mine is sharply acidic, almost too sour, at one point it had an aroma that was a little off putting. So I pitched a little bit of Brett Trois and it cleaned up the aroma brilliantly. Its a VERY sour berliner weisse but is pretty refreshing. Grain to glass ~4 months.

Next time I will do a Lacto start from grains and not throw the grains into primary.

Tiroux · 01-31-2013, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coff

A little while back a friend and I split a Berliner and fermented it 2 different ways. He pitched a vial of WLP Lacto for 48 hrs warm then Sacc, I tossed a handful of Pilsner malt into primary and kept it warm for 48 hours then picthed sacc.

His has no sourness whatsoever, just turned out strange. Mine is sharply acidic, almost too sour, at one point it had an aroma that was a little off putting. So I pitched a little bit of Brett Trois and it cleaned up the aroma brilliantly. Its a VERY sour berliner weisse but is pretty refreshing. Grain to glass ~4 months.

Next time I will do a Lacto start from grains and not throw the grains into primary.

Thats interesting. Probably the illustration of two different lacto strains and/or pitching rate

bknifefight · 01-31-2013, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiroux

Yhea, this method sounds pretty nice too. It might be a way always keep a good stock of really-easy drinkable beer. I will probably will give it a try, but I guess it's a pretty different beer from the one I would make with lacto/brett fermentation. I'll probably give a try to both.

At what t° did you hold the mash during souring? And how (where?)

I use a cooler mash tun. After the initial mash, I added ice to get it down to about 105*. Added a handful of uncrushed 2-row, stirred and sealed it up. Every 8 hours I added enough boiling water to bring it up to 105* Usually about a quart. You have to taste it too. It's kinda gross but the only way youll get the sourness you want. Mine was good after 36 hours.

Also, if you can, flood the headspace of the mash tun with CO2. I have read it smells very bad if you dont. I did and it had a cooked corn smell, which was weird, but not bad.

Tiroux · 01-31-2013, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bknifefight

I use a cooler mash tun. After the initial mash, I added ice to get it down to about 105*. Added a handful of uncrushed 2-row, stirred and sealed it up. Every 8 hours I added enough boiling water to bring it up to 105* Usually about a quart. You have to taste it too. It's kinda gross but the only way youll get the sourness you want. Mine was good after 36 hours.

Also, if you can, flood the headspace of the mash tun with CO2. I have read it smells very bad if you dont. I did and it had a cooked corn smell, which was weird, but not bad.

I have no cooler nor a co2 tank so i would have to manage something . I was thinking, for a small batch, to keep it in the oven, with oven light on. Its keeps aound 50*C

bknifefight · 01-31-2013, 07:37 PM

I havew a friend who did a 1 gallon batch of sour mash like that.

Tiroux · 02-01-2013, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bknifefight

I havew a friend who did a 1 gallon batch of sour mash like that.

What is like that?

bknifefight · 02-01-2013, 01:41 AM

In the oven to keep the sour mash at temp

Calder · 02-01-2013, 01:41 AM

You want a quick Berliner? Pitch the lacto into the wort and keep as warm as you can for about a week. No hops, Lacto doesn't like hops. Ideally you would want to keep it around 100 F, but as long as it is not too low, the lacto should still work.

You pitch the lacto without the yeast, because Lacto doesn't like alcohol, and it will slow its progress down, and possibly prevent it from working.

Once it is as sour as you want it (and it can take a week, or more; a lot depends on the amount of Lacto you pitch, and temperature you keep it at), boil it, add whatever hops you want, and ferment with whatever yeast you want. Pitch big, as the acidic environment is hostile to regular yeast.

You can be in the bottle in 4 weeks.

Good luck

Tiroux · 02-01-2013, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calder

You want a quick Berliner? Pitch the lacto into the wort and keep as warm as you can for about a week. No hops, Lacto doesn't like hops. Ideally you would want to keep it around 100 F, but as long as it is not too low, the lacto should still work.

You pitch the lacto without the yeast, because Lacto doesn't like alcohol, and it will slow its progress down, and possibly prevent it from working.

Once it is as sour as you want it (and it can take a week, or more; a lot depends on the amount of Lacto you pitch, and temperature you keep it at), boil it, add whatever hops you want, and ferment with whatever yeast you want. Pitch big, as the acidic environment is hostile to regular yeast.

You can be in the bottle in 4 weeks.

Good luck

Thanks!

I think my method could be pretty too, no?

I pitch a Vial of Lacto in 2.5gal of wort (preboiled), which I keep at 80*F for 1-2 weeks. (it's pretty much the higher I can go at this time)

I pitch a vial of Brett in 2.5gal of wort (preboild), wich I keep at 75*F for the same 1-2 weeks.

Since it's a fairly low density wort (1030), pretty much all the sugars should be consumed after 2 weeks. Lactic acid on one side, Alcohol on the other side. Then I blend together and let it another week or two so the fermentation can continue/finish. Then bottle, and drink.