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Old 05-12-2013, 03:11 AM   #241
Tiroux
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I'll start a partial sour mash soon for my raspberry wheat. I'll do a 4-5L sour mash for 20L total, I'll add the sour part at sparging.

I'll do it in a stainless pot with a plastic pellicule and lid on it (or the lid first...). We'll see. I plan not to open it for 3 days.

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Old 05-24-2013, 03:53 PM   #242
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So I want to get my berliner weisse pretty sour, but I'm concerned about how a low PH might affect a regular sach yeast that I plan on pitching after souring my wort. Has anyone had any problems pitching a regular german hefeweizen yeast after souring their wort?

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Old 05-25-2013, 06:18 AM   #243
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Cheers!
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Old 07-04-2013, 01:35 AM   #244
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Hey all. Thread is 2 months old but maybe I can resurrect.

I am an extract brewer looking to do a berliner without tieing up my FV for months. I am pushing towards what some like J Wakefield, Pegs/Cycle, Funky Buddha, Angry Chair, Gravity Brewlab are doing- heavily fruited berliners dubbed 'Florida Weisse.' After much research, I think the sour wort approach will work best for me for ease and quick turn around. Can anyone let me know that I am following a good process???

a) Heated 3.5 gal water in the kettle to 170
b) Added full amount of DME
c) Cooled to 115F
d) Tossed handful uncrushed 2-row into kettle.
e) Purged headspace with CO2
f) Layered sanitized cling wrap over wort and made a seal on the kettle sides
g) Purged remaining 4 inches of headspace in kettle with CO2 and sealed headspace with cling wrap
h) Threw on kettle lid for good measure
i) Wrapped in towel, placed in oven with oven light on (currently holding 107F, 6 hours later)

The following steps are NOT done yet...only 6 hours into the sour wort. It already has a light creamed corn smell

j) Keep temp 90-110 best I can. After 1 day, taste, leave longer if not soured to taste. Total 2-4 days.
k) once at desired sour level, strain grain and any mess from wort, and bring to boil in kettle to kill of lacto
l) Boil 15 minutes. Add 1oz Hallertau at start of boil.
m) Cool with ~2 gal of top off water and put in ice bath to bout 70F. This will bring total wort to 5 gallons.
n) Pitch US-05 and leave in temp controlled chest freezer til primary ferm finishes
o) rack over 4 lb of pureed raspberries in secondary (buying frozen, pureeing in food processor, freezing in ziploc, thaw and pitch)
p) let ride in secondary 1-2 weeks.


Questions!
1) When I bottle this after fermentation (probably 1 week primary, 2 weeks on fruit in secondary), how long should it be in bottles before ready...the typical 3 weeks that I wait with most of my beers, or will it take longer to condition
2) How many volumes of CO2 for this beer. I imagine its higher than the 2.2-2.4 I use on my IPA/DIPA/IIPAs
3) Anyone have any idea how to keep the sour wort hot enough. People say in the oven with the light on, but I have doubts my little oven light is going to keep the oven around 100*. I have heard a) heat blanket (reasonable, as they are only $18 at Walgreens), b) hair dryer (lol), c) maybe turn the oven on low for a bit (first removing my towels and such)


If my beers turns out tasting anything close to decent and looks like this (for a HBT user), I will be very proud for a first try. The whole baby diaper, cheese, foot sweat, vomit stories are freakin me out

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Old 07-04-2013, 02:55 AM   #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassman22 View Post
Questions!
1) When I bottle this after fermentation (probably 1 week primary, 2 weeks on fruit in secondary), how long should it be in bottles before ready...the typical 3 weeks that I wait with most of my beers, or will it take longer to condition
2) How many volumes of CO2 for this beer. I imagine its higher than the 2.2-2.4 I use on my IPA/DIPA/IIPAs
3) Anyone have any idea how to keep the sour wort hot enough. People say in the oven with the light on, but I have doubts my little oven light is going to keep the oven around 100*. I have heard a) heat blanket (reasonable, as they are only $18 at Walgreens), b) hair dryer (lol), c) maybe turn the oven on low for a bit (first removing my towels and such)

If my beers turns out tasting anything close to decent and looks like this (for a HBT user), I will be very proud for a first try. The whole baby diaper, cheese, foot sweat, vomit stories are freakin me out
Don't get too worried. Some people have failed because bacteria is unpredictable, but for the most part a soured wort is the easiest thing in the world. I recently did my first sour, and I simply made an unhopped wort, through some 2-row grain in, and let it sit in a carboy outside (we get enough heat in Miami to sour it in a few days out there.) After I pasteurized it and pitched some yeast, let it ferment for 10 days, and bottled. I'm actually drinking one now, and it's pretty good. I thought it would be a good idea to do it my first time without fruit, but I think I slightly regret that now.
You seem to have your ideas down, and I think your beer will be delicious. Just go for it. Really, it's easy.

To answer your questions:
It carbonates as fast as a normal beer. I was drinking mine after 5 days and it has a decent amount of carbonation (though not completely ready yet.) Around 3 volumes is good for a Berliner. It's one of those styles where you want a nice spritzy feel. Use this: http://www.northernbrewer.com/priming-sugar-calculator/
For heating, I don't know. Even if it's not THAT hot, it will still sour. Heat just quickens the process. As I said, I just left mine outside, and it turned out fine.
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Old 07-04-2013, 09:06 PM   #246
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Thanks for the advice and encouragement.

24 hours later the wort is smelling like straight creamed corn casserole that mom makes on Thanksgiving. From my readings this is good. Temp is holding 106-108 with a towel wrapped kettle in the oven with the oven light on.

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Old 07-24-2013, 03:57 PM   #247
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Default malto and brett a good thing!

Did a 1a - Normal mash + single fermentation with both Yeast (London ESB) and lactobacillus (Wyeast 4335), pitch at the same time.

55% Pilsner
40% white wheat
5% acid malt
7 IBU Hallertau

Tasting notes. Note that I did two versions so ESB&L stands for London ESB and Lacto version.

3.5 months:
ESB&L version is very flat and almost soapy tasting with a slight apfelwein taste to it. No real sourness to it to speak of. Color of a very clear pilsner.

7.5 months:
Transferred off of the yeast cake and into fresh better bottles. ESB&L version tastes like nothing. Some very, very light sourness detected when cold, but when warmed up it tastes simply like nothing. Gravity 1.000. Boiled up 1/2 lb of maltodextrine (~4 points) in a little bit of water and added along with some ECY 04 Brett Blend #1 (1/3 of a 2L starter crashed and decanted)

1 year:
ESB and Lacto
Nice wheaty sourness on nose. Tartness washes over the tongue and a very light flavor. Kegged it up and it's a nice, light wheaty beer with a decent tartness / sourness to it. Not overwhelming, but there for sure and certainly in balance. I think the malto and brett blend really helped out with the flavor complexity here.

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Old 07-25-2013, 09:23 PM   #248
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Berliner Weiss is one of my favorite brews right now. I just made an all grain batch (my first all grain) this week. I sour mashed for 4 days in a bucket wrapped with two wool blankets. I mashed out today using an igloo cooler. After sparging to get a total of 6 gallons I tasted and it is nice and sour. It is in fermenter right now cooling down until I can pitch my ale yeast. I used the attached recipe and followed it as closely as I could. I did not keep my sour mash temps at 100 but the wool blankets really helped to hold the heat in for days as it was still warm today. Will update what is happening with my berliner.

http://atimeforbeer.blogspot.com/201...ss-recipe.html

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Old 07-31-2013, 06:04 PM   #249
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I've tried 2 methods:

1c - Pitching WLP630 Berliner Weiss Blend at start

2a + 6 - Normal mash + single fermentation with no-boil and mash-hopping, but pitching lactobacillus (1) day before pitching saccharomyces.

I must say I prefer the product of the 2nd process, and it seems to get sour much faster. I've now done no-boil several times with good results, but not as sour as some that I've had.

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Old 07-31-2013, 07:37 PM   #250
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I'm just now drinking 10 gallons of my sour wort method Berliner Weisse. I followed the instructions (mostly) in the "Funk with Less Fuss" article in Zymurgy a while back.
My reason for picking this method was that I had read of sour mashes gone bad due to other bacterial infections. Also, a friend of mine brewed a sour mash version, let it sit for 5 days in the cooler and still came out with weak sourness.

MY GRAIN BILL:
6# Weyermann Pilsner
6# Weyermann Wheat
3# Global Kolsch

Started 5 days before brew session by puttin a handful of grain in a 1 quart jar with 110 degree water and 1/3 lb. of honey. I put that in a cooler and let sit for two days. After the second day, I took a pH reading with a simple color-tipped strip and was at about 3.9. The article mentioned Lactobacillus like 3.8 to 4.3 pH so I took the sour starter out of the cooler and let it sit at room temperature for the third day to slow down the pH drop.
On the third day I conducted the mash and sparge, brought the wort just to a boil and then cooled down to 110 degrees again. Put that back in my cooler to let sit for about 46 hours, just short of 2 days. I didn't notice any vomitous smells during that time. The sour wort probably has that benefit over the sour mash method due to the fact that by the time you're doing most of your souring, the bad bacteria has died off in the starter. The article said to sour the wort for 12-24 hours, but I figured more is better, right. I tasted the samples during those 2 days and it never got very sour, just a slight tartness.
After two days of wort souring, I brought the wort to boil for about 30 minutes and added a pinch of hops that were close to being too old for storage anyway.
Each 5 gallons got a re-hydrated pack of US-05. It took 2 days for activity to get to the airlock. I was worried that the low pH was killing the yeast, but it did eventually get to work. I used the US-05 intentionally for its robustness. For 1 day of fermentation, there was a pretty intense sulfur smell coming from the fermenters. This is a first for me with US-05. It did die off, though. I let them sit in the fermenter for 1 week and then kegged. Started drinking 3 days after that.

The smell has slight green apple, wheat and a little funk coming from it. The clarity of course is horrible but to style. It is very tart, but just right as far as I'm concerned. Fermentation after souring does increase the perception of tartness. And then, to me, the carbonation upped that even more. I may let it go for 24-36 hours next time when I let it sour in the cooler. Total time until having this beer ready to drink was 2.5 weeks. I've made Berliner Weisse's with Lacto Cultures before, and waited on them diligently for months and months. This beer is just as good as those.

One thing I did see though was that my hydrometer never really registered the drop in gravity as the US-05 was fermenting. I've seen on forums where the lactic acid has enough density to give false hydrometer readings. In fact my reading was 1.032 after fermentation was complete. My refractometer did indicate, though, that final ABV was 3.8% and FG 1.006 so everything seems good. And I can tell by the taste there's no way that it's 1.032 at FG.

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