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Old 05-10-2013, 06:52 PM   #231
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Then remain skeptical. It was purely a suggestion, guess people can't make suggestions that involve spending money around tightwad homebrewers.
I'm not sure what you mean by spending money? I have nine kegs, 4 carboys, a 13 gallon fermentor and an uncut 15 gallon sanke. I also have a second co2 tank so I wouldn't have to disconnect the one to my kegerator. I could certainly do your suggestion without spending money. I was trying to politely say that I don't think your method is better.


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Old 05-10-2013, 07:23 PM   #232
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I really like the sound of this process. Am wondering if 2 liter soda bottles would work even better (but you'd need about 10 of them...) as they might be less likely to crack, are designed to hold some pressure if the fermentation starts producing gas, and maybe are less O2 permeable (not sure about the last, need to research).

Am wondering how hot I can get my fermentation chamber (an upright fridge with a STC-1000 control) using a paint can heater...

As for the 15 minute boil at the end. Are you at all concerned about boiling off alcohol that was produced during the lactic fermentation? Is it too little to worry about? I'm guessing it is just not an issue. Out of curiosity what were your pre and post boil gravities on this beer? I am assuming pre boil would be after lacto fermentation, when the 5 gallons went into the brew kettle...
I'll have to check my notes on the pre-post boil gravities when I get home today. I don't think there would be too much alcohol production from the souring process to worry about though.

I think your pop bottle idea would work great since they will only be in them for less than a week. Just remember to release the pressure in the daily (or more than once per day).

For the heating, why not just grab a $8 hair dryer from Walmart? Hair driers even come with a fan to lessen any temperature stratification within your chamber. If your chamber is decently insulated, you won't hear the hair drier kick on much at all.


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Old 05-10-2013, 07:24 PM   #233
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How about this one...
http://www.amazon.com/Ziploc-Double-Zipper-X-Large-4-Count/dp/B003U6A3EY

Disposable, about $1.25/batch....
I'd question how food safe they are, since they are meant to be used for non-food storage.
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Old 05-10-2013, 07:29 PM   #234
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Sure, you can purge any vessel with co2 but its impossible to get 100% removed. I'd be very skeptical that more oxygen leaks through the walls of a plastic bag than already exists by "purging by mixing".
Completely agree. You might want to think about oxygen permeation through plastic when you're ageing something for loooon periods of time. Otherwise, I would guess that you would be left with more oxygen in your vessel from a CO2 purge than squeezing air from a plastic vessel and sealing it.
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Old 05-10-2013, 08:27 PM   #235
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Are you all assuming that a sour mash doesnt produce co2? Heterofermentative lacto does..

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Old 05-10-2013, 08:45 PM   #236
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Of course. That's why I suggest releasing the CO2 pressure at least once per day by opening the bottles

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Old 05-10-2013, 09:41 PM   #237
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All I have to say is that a lot of oxygen can make it through a plastic bag. The only bags I'd use are bags designed for food/water and in this case I'd go with a mylar type bag that they fill wine with for bag in a box. It might not be enough to notice immediately but I am inclined to say that someone with a better sense of taste than me would tell the difference between a stainless steel vessel and thin plastic containers. Purging a vessel with CO2 can lead to oxygen percentages in the vessel lower than 0.025%. So if you think simply squeezing air out of a bag is better than purging then just keep using that method. I love that you're resistant to even give it a try because you don't think it would make a difference. Not like it'd be much more effort. The breweries that have done sour mashes I believe fitted their mash tanks with fittings so they can purge the oxygen out greatly reducing aerobic fermentation of native bacteria on the grain. Aerobic fermentation is what tends to form the vomit and poop odors and flavors.

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Old 05-10-2013, 10:39 PM   #238
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Not every one have a co2 tank at home.

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Old 05-10-2013, 11:32 PM   #239
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My first and only batch was lacto fermented in a stainless steel pot with a lid. Opened it up every 8 hours to taste. I am getting some funk but not vomit or poop. I'd like to reduce O2 exposure but not going to get crazy about it....

As for the soda bottles they are able to hold a fair amount of pressure. Probably be ok not opening.

The hair dryer sounds a little scary. Not sure why.

As for food safety of the ziplock bags I agree it is a potential concern because the mfg doesn't claim food grade, however I read elsewhere it really is the same plastic.

Oh yes, I am a tightwad. :P

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Old 05-11-2013, 02:35 PM   #240
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smokinghole, I didn't mean to get you all upset. I'm not a scientist and I don't know what method is best. I know that plastic is permeable and I also know that purging all oxygen is impossible (without first creating a vacuum at least). I didn't appreciate your assumption that my preference for one method over another meant I was a tightwad for some reason. Anyway, thanks for your viewpoint.



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