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Old 01-31-2013, 03:00 AM   #11
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Thanks! I think I'll go with buying a vial (that will be the most expensive item on the recipe, ahahah!) of lactobacillus.

You used a saccharomyces strain?

I see most of people use Sacch... but also some that use Brett, and get really good result. I also see the WL Berliner Weisse Blend use Brett instead of Sacc.

I think I'll give it a try with lacto D and brett C, as said. But now... separate fermentation, or a single one but add lacto first...

I'm planing 50% german Pils and 50% White wheat, no hops, or so little (less than half an once for a 5gal)

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Old 01-31-2013, 04:10 PM   #12
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Thanks! I think I'll go with buying a vial (that will be the most expensive item on the recipe, ahahah!) of lactobacillus.

You used a saccharomyces strain?

I see most of people use Sacch... but also some that use Brett, and get really good result. I also see the WL Berliner Weisse Blend use Brett instead of Sacc.

I think I'll give it a try with lacto D and brett C, as said. But now... separate fermentation, or a single one but add lacto first...

I'm planing 50% german Pils and 50% White wheat, no hops, or so little (less than half an once for a 5gal)
After reflexion, it came to my head that I would need to add ale or champagne yeast to carb it in the bottles, so I refined my idea.

For a couple of weeks, ferment side-by-side two half-batches with Lactobacillus D. and Brett C to let both yeast/bacteria do its thing, then rack together. If the SG is still a bit high, I could pitch an ale yeast right now, if not, I just let age a bit, and add yeast at bottling to full carb.

I'll give it a try... nothing to loose. A few bucks. I use only glass carboy so cleaning shouldn't be a problem, and I'' have a ''lambic'' marked set of Siphon/bottling bucket/etc...
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:19 PM   #13
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After reflexion, it came to my head that I would need to add ale or champagne yeast to carb it in the bottles, so I refined my idea.
Why do you need to add additional yeast? I think adding champagne yeast would be unnecessary. Brett, in particular, can handle more types of fermentables than ale yeast, so it works on the wort for a long time. Adding sugar before bottling would work, the Brett (or Lacto) will chew through it just fine.
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:21 PM   #14
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I did a Lacto starter instead of buying it. Mix up a pint of 1.030 sucrose solution (table sugar) and scoop two table spoons of whole base malt in and let it sit in a warm place for a week.
Could you define "warm"? You are in FL so that could mean anywhere from 80F to 110F.
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:25 PM   #15
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Why do you need to add additional yeast? I think adding champagne yeast would be unnecessary. Brett, in particular, can handle more types of fermentables than ale yeast, so it works on the wort for a long time. Adding sugar before bottling would work, the Brett (or Lacto) will chew through it just fine.
I've been told Brett doesn't really carb well in bottle. Didn't really understood why, but...
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:31 PM   #16
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I've been told Brett doesn't really carb well in bottle. Didn't really understood why, but...
It carbs so well (although slower), that it will make your bottles explode. This is less of an issue if you plan on drinking the batch pretty quickly. Then, adding an ale yeast or champagne yeast will result in a pretty quick carbonation (a week or so). Brett will continue to chew through any fermentables left in the bottle. I guess your time frame will determine what you do.
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:37 PM   #17
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It carbs so well (although slower), that it will make your bottles explode. This is less of an issue if you plan on drinking the batch pretty quickly. Then, adding an ale yeast or champagne yeast will result in a pretty quick carbonation (a week or so). Brett will continue to chew through any fermentables left in the bottle. I guess your time frame will determine what you do.
Ok, good to know. But, for an OG of 1030, after about 2 months of brett/lacto fermentation, there's still extra sugars? Anyways, I'll bottling in belgian 750ml heavy bottles at 3.5vol, with corks. I think they can resist 4-5 vol, so I should be find even if the brett continue to eat on a long term.

When you say longer for carb, you means weeks, months..?
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Old 01-31-2013, 05:06 PM   #18
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Ok, good to know. But, for an OG of 1030, after about 2 months of brett/lacto fermentation, there's still extra sugars? Anyways, I'll bottling in belgian 750ml heavy bottles at 3.5vol, with corks. I think they can resist 4-5 vol, so I should be find even if the brett continue to eat on a long term.

When you say longer for carb, you means weeks, months..?
Brettanomyces eats sugars (and breaks down starches) that saccharomyces cannot. If you leave it to work long enough, it can completely dry your beer out to 1.000 or possibly even lower. The typical amount of gravity loss necessary to carb a bottle to 2 volumes is something like .003 (it's been a while, but it's something in that range IIRC). So say your Berliner Weiss ferments from 1.030 down to 1.006, which is 80% apparent attenuation. That still leaves another 2-4+ volumes of stuff for the brett to work on. 2 volumes is fine. 3 volumes, you're starting to get into the danger zone for regular 12oz bottles, but for your heavy duty ones designed for higher carbonation you're probably fine. 4+ volumes...I'm not sure how I'd feel about storing those bottles.
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Old 01-31-2013, 05:10 PM   #19
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Brettanomyces eats sugars (and breaks down starches) that saccharomyces cannot. If you leave it to work long enough, it can completely dry your beer out to 1.000 or possibly even lower. The typical amount of gravity loss necessary to carb a bottle to 2 volumes is something like .003 (it's been a while, but it's something in that range IIRC). So say your Berliner Weiss ferments from 1.030 down to 1.006, which is 80% apparent attenuation. That still leaves another 2-4+ volumes of stuff for the brett to work on. 2 volumes is fine. 3 volumes, you're starting to get into the danger zone. 4+ volumes...I'm not sure how I'd feel about storing those bottles.
Yhea I know... the point is I won't bottle at 1.006.
2 months of fermentation is an approximation, I don't really know the speed of the brett, for certainly, I know my beer will finish around 1.000, so I'll wait to be in this zone before I bottle.

Edit: Anyways... this type of beer is made to be drink fast, you know, very very low alcool, refreshing beer. That's probably why I would add some sacch at bottling and begin to drink it fast.
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Old 01-31-2013, 05:26 PM   #20
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I recently did the sour mash/ferment with ale yeast method you had as 5a. The sourness was right on after about 36 hours of the sour mash. 15 minute boil with 1/2 ounce of Hallertau. Being so low of an OG, it was fermented out in no time. Including the sour mash, I could have had this from grain to glass in a week, seriously. Oh, and 5 gallons cost about $10.

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