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-   -   Berliner Weiss, many ways (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/berliner-weiss-many-ways-385934/)

Tiroux 01-30-2013 06:05 PM

Berliner Weiss, many ways
 
So, I'm planning a batch of Berliner Weiss for the upcoming spring. I've read around on this forum and other ones, to finally find many many ways to brew/ferment a berliner weiss.

I would like to ear your experiences with these different methods and the difference in results.

1a - Normal mash + single fermentation with both Yeast and lactobacillus, pitch at the same time.

1b - Same thing, but with Brettamyces instead of Saccharomyces

1c - Same thing, but with WLP630 Berliner Weiss Blend

2a - Normal mash + single fermentation, but pitching lactobacillus few days before pitching saccharomyces

2b - Same thing, but with Brettamyces

3 - Normal mash + seperate fermentation (half with lacto, half with sacch or brett, then blend at bottling)

4 - Normal mash + primary with Yeast, then Secondary with Lacto

5a - Sour mash + yeast fermentation

5b - Sour mash + yeast/lacto fermentation in any previously said way

*6 - For every normal or sour mash, the choice to boil or not to boil (only pasteurize)

ColoHox 01-30-2013 07:00 PM

1c for me.

20 min boil, berliner weiss blend added and maintained at 100F for 4 days, then cooled to 65. This sat for 6 months, then I added more lacto and sugar for 4 volumes of carb and bottled in heavy Belgians. I really like it and am making another batch in a few weeks.

Tiroux 01-30-2013 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColoHox
1c for me.

20 min boil, berliner weiss blend added and maintained at 100F for 4 days, then cooled to 65. This sat for 6 months, then I added more lacto and sugar for 4 volumes of carb and bottled in heavy Belgians. I really like it and am making another batch in a few weeks.

Im happy to have reviews of this strain. But, 6 montus aint long for a 1030 og beer? I've seen about 2 months most of the time. Also im not sure I can keep it at 100... Is it the recommanded temp?

ColoHox 01-30-2013 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiroux (Post 4845347)
Im happy to have reviews of this strain. But, 6 montus aint long for a 1030 og beer? I've seen about 2 months most of the time. Also im not sure I can keep it at 100... Is it the recommanded temp?

Mine is not exactly to style. I experimented with the plan for this recipe for a while. I go to 1.050 then allow it to sit in primary longer. Less time in primary and regular bottles was bad news.

96-100 is best for Lactobacillus. It grows very rapidly at that temp. Although it takes a while for the sourness to develop. I know this is supposed to be a small a quick beer, but I like it with just a tad more flavor and sourness.

Tiroux 01-30-2013 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColoHox

Mine is not exactly to style. I experimented with the plan for this recipe for a while. I go to 1.050 then allow it to sit in primary longer. Less time in primary and regular bottles was bad news.

96-100 is best for Lactobacillus. It grows very rapidly at that temp. Although it takes a while for the sourness to develop. I know this is supposed to be a small a quick beer, but I like it with just a tad more flavor and sourness.

Ok. Makes sens. I'll manage a way to leep warmth for a few days. But im still not fixed on the strains to use.. Id maybe go with separate fermentation, lacto and brett C

erikpete18 01-30-2013 11:22 PM

The only trouble I see with a separate fermentation is making sure which lacto strain you get. Some lacto strains don't have the ability to ferment maltose, meaning that when you blend them together at bottling, the Brett is going to see all that new maltose and go kablooey. According to the Mad Fermentationist (great website for info by the way), the white labs lacto strain should be able to ferment maltose, while the wyeast can't. If you decide to go with a separate fermentation, make sure you get the White Labs.

ColoHox 01-31-2013 12:51 AM

Lactobacillus delbrueckii is the primary strain used in a Berliner weisse. White labs sells this and a starter can be made with some dme and apple juice to get better numbers.

Tiroux 01-31-2013 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erikpete18 (Post 4845987)
The only trouble I see with a separate fermentation is making sure which lacto strain you get. Some lacto strains don't have the ability to ferment maltose, meaning that when you blend them together at bottling, the Brett is going to see all that new maltose and go kablooey. According to the Mad Fermentationist (great website for info by the way), the white labs lacto strain should be able to ferment maltose, while the wyeast can't. If you decide to go with a separate fermentation, make sure you get the White Labs.


I forgot to mention, or maybe I said it wrong (english ain't my language he!)

I wouldn't blend them at bottling, but in secondary. 1 month apart, 1 month together, then bottling and full carb with champagne yeast.

I was looking at Lactobacillus Delbrueckii and Brettanomyces Claussenii, both from White Lab

edecambra 01-31-2013 02:49 AM

I did a Lacto starter instead of buying it. Mix up a pint of 1.030 sucrose solution (table sugar) and scoop two table spoons of whole base malt in and let it sit in a warm place for a week. If it smells like apples afterwords it is good. Then mash, pasturize( I did it a 180) Cool it to about 100 and pitch your starter for 18 - 24 hours before cooling and pitching your sacc

This should give you fast turn around, complex and good sourness berlinner. The lacto starter most likely has some brett too.

I did this and had a very sour, beautifully complex beer that was drinkable in one weeks time! and after three weeks it was awesome! I got a bronze at the sunshine challenge in florida this past fall, and have entered it a few other times with scores in the the high thirties/ low forties.

This was with basic american 2-row, a touch of munich and white wheat. If i did it again I'd use a more complex base like german pils or something but the same schedule.

Oh and no hops, why waste them?

edecambra 01-31-2013 02:50 AM

Oh and doing it this way made one of the cheapest, fastest, and tastiest beers i've ever made.

Just saying,


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