Berliner-ish

badlee · 01-07-2012, 02:35 AM

I am now in love with the idea of a Berliner weisse.
So, as it is REAL hard to get barley malt here in Thailand,I will do an all wheat sour in the Berliner style.
The question is,which of these two methods would come out better?
1) 20 percent sour mash added to the main mash before sparge.
2) 20 percent sour mash added to primary after 3-4 days of fermenting with ale yeast.

You lads humble me with all of your knowledge and experience,so as always,all and any feedback will be thankfully recieved.
Cheers,Lee.

Ps,it is going to be my first sour

badlee · 01-08-2012, 06:14 AM

No one going to help out poor old me on this one?

**cervezarara** · 01-08-2012, 11:55 AM

I recommend number 1. I think you want to boil the sour mash to kill any enterobacteria that may have been active. Sour mash a day or two before brewing, and allow the sour mash to stay about 115*F. You can cover with plastic to minimize airborn cntaminants entering the sour mash. This is a hit or miss technique, so you can inrease/decrease sour mash percentage for the next brew based upon the level of sourness you desire.

badlee · 01-09-2012, 12:10 AM

Thanks very much for that.
Woul I be correct in thinking that the second option would just be crazy sour and riddled with nasties?

ReverseApacheMaster · 01-09-2012, 01:59 AM

You probably won't get a lot of extra sourness from option two unless you let it sit for months. You are just as likely to develop an undesirable flavor as you are a desirable flavor. That's the risk of wild fermentation.

Adding the sour mash pre-boil stops the souring process but also produces a clean beer so you won't risk infecting post-boil equipment.

badlee · 01-09-2012, 07:08 AM

The undesirables is what was at the back of my mind,just wasn;t sure if I was on the right track.
So,low mash temp with 20 percent of grain bill, say, 2 days before brew day,then add to main mash just before sparge?
Cheers lads.

badlee · 01-23-2012, 04:05 AM

Brewed on sunday and it made the whole house smell like puke and rotten fish.
The soured part of the wort tasted very nice.Hope the taste and not the smell comes through!

badlee · 01-25-2012, 12:12 AM

the house is smelling less. the beer is still fermenting away,clearing,but I upened the FV and it still smells a bit crappy! Do I need to feed this to the trees?

**cervezarara** · 01-26-2012, 10:30 AM

It's possible some clostridium bacteria infected your sour mash. This throws butyric acid which can smell like vomit. A few days is not enough time to decide if this will clean up or not. If infection was slight, and you boiled after sour mash, it's possible this will go away with 1-3 months of conditioning. If you have fermenter space, you may wish to let this sit and condition, checking the taste every month.

Clostridium is inactive above 110F, so if you can keep the sour mash above that temp, you should inhibit future infections. You may with to place plastic wrap on top of the sour mash, squeezing out the air bubbles to get rid of air. Or if you have access to pure cultures of Lactobacillus delbruckii, introduce these after the boil, and skip the sour mash.

Let us know if this one clears up.

othellomcbane · 01-26-2012, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cervezarara

It's possible some clostridium bacteria infected your sour mash. This throws butyric acid which can smell like vomit. A few days is not enough time to decide if this will clean up or not. If infection was slight, and you boiled after sour mash, it's possible this will go away with 1-3 months of conditioning. If you have fermenter space, you may wish to let this sit and condition, checking the taste every month.

Clostridium is inactive above 110F, so if you can keep the sour mash above that temp, you should inhibit future infections. You may with to place plastic wrap on top of the sour mash, squeezing out the air bubbles to get rid of air. Or if you have access to pure cultures of Lactobacillus delbruckii, introduce these after the boil, and skip the sour mash.

Let us know if this one clears up.

Not sure that this would work for everyone, but I discovered my tap water from the kitchen sink, at its hottest, is 115 degrees. Perfect for a sour mash. I only did a small sour mash, but I topped off a small carboy to limit oxygen exposure, covered it with plastic, set the carboy in my insulated cooler mash tun, and then filled up the rest of the cooler with hot tap water. Every 10 hours or so I drained the cooler and refilled it with hot water, so the temp never dropped below 110 degrees.

I kept the mash going for 2 days and at the end had a very nice clean sourness. No disgusting smells whatsoever. So if you can employ this strategy, it seems to work.