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stblindtiger · 05-13-2011, 02:09 AM

I currently have a locally harvested Wild Yeast that I was given at a homebrew club meeting. I also just made a starter from the dregs of a Cantillon Grand Cru, and I also have a 6.5 gallon bucket of Jamil's Flander's Red that has been aging for about 5 months now.

I pitched Wyeast's Roselare into the Flander's about a month after it's initial fermentation (4 months ago) and there still isn't a pellicle formed yet. Should I dump some dregs into it?

I LOVE beers like The Duchesse, Monk's Cafe Sour, Rodenbach, Chimay (Blue), and my absolute favorite is RR's Consecration and often pick up at least a bottle or two a month. I feel as though I have a lot of possibilities here and I am just not sure what direction to go???

Any suggestions for the Flanders? Should I just start pitching dregs into the Flanders everytime I have a bottle conditioned sour? Would that hurt it at all? Should I pitch the starter I made from the Cantillon into it? Pitch the Wild yeast into it?

Or should I keep the starter from the Cantillon, build it up, and use that to start my first Lambic?

I've also been thinking about using the Wild Yeast to make a Consecration type beer with a Dark Belgian Stong Ale as a base, soaking some oak in cabernet, and aging it on currants.

What do you think I should do?

ryane · 05-13-2011, 03:13 AM

Ive never had good luck with cantillon dregs, bottles are pretty old by the time they get over here, usually it produces a very musty grainy flavored beer, minimal sourness

Freshness is the key with bottle dregs, use a US sour that is very fresh, they are great sources of bugs, one Ive found recently and is still very fresh is Odell's Friek, quick clean souring with lots of fruitiness and minimal funk

Oldsock · 05-13-2011, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryane

Ive never had good luck with cantillon dregs, bottles are pretty old by the time they get over here, usually it produces a very must grainy flavored beer, minimal sourness

Freshness is the key with bottle dregs, use a US sour that is very fresh, they are great sources of bugs, one Ive found recently and is still very fresh is Odell's Friek, quick clean souring with lots of fruitiness and minimal funk

Agreed, especially the Grand Cru which is 3 years old and uncarbonated.

Adding Roeselare after primary won’t get you much sourness in my experience. Russian River and Jolly Pumpkin dregs are great as well, although I wouldn't go opening up the fermenter every week to dump dregs in. Get a small jar of wort, put it in the fridge and use it to save dregs for the next month or so, then pitch it in.

The wild yeast starter is certainly an option as well, had the person who gave it to you tried it with good results?

Good luck

Almighty · 05-13-2011, 08:38 PM

I'm not a huge fan of just throwing in bottle dregs without testing them. It would be a shame to get a bad bottle or even a good bottle but with bugs that produce a flavor you don't like. I like to test the dregs in a gallon of wort to see the flavors that those bugs produce. I like to test them over a long period of time because the flavors will change dramatically.

There are a few dregs that ryane and Oldsock mentioned that are very well tested so they are pretty safe.
Here is the post with the different dregs I have tried so far:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/easy-way-make-sour-beers-1-gal-wort-dregs-189748/

stblindtiger · 05-17-2011, 02:01 AM

Thanks for the advice!

I'm making an English Mild on Thursday and I'll probably just use some of the runnings to make another starter to collect dregs in for the Flanders.

The guy who I got the Wild Yeast from has used the yeast successfully on Ambers. I had a real detailed information sheet on it, and I just can't seem to find it now??? I emailed the guy who gave it to me though, so hopefully I'll have the information on it soon.

Almighty, thanks for the link! Lots of good stuff to read there!

3 days in on the starter and it smells like dry sour funk. I didn't try it, it sort of scared me looking at it. I'll have to take a picture and post what it looks like....There really isn't a whole lot of sediment on the bottom, but there was a kraussen, and it has fallen now. I will probably add some more wort to it to try and build it up some more on Thursday too.

Thanks again!

stblindtiger · 05-21-2011, 12:38 AM

Well, now I made a starter from the dregs of an E.S. Bam and a Bam Biere from Jolly Pumpkin.... LOL.

I guess I'll figure out what I'm going to do with them all later....

stblindtiger · 05-25-2011, 01:08 AM

Here are the starters I made from the dregs:

I made an English Mild on Friday, and just took some of the runnings to make a starter with the Jolly Pumpkin dregs. Here are the results:

The next picture is the first starter I made using the Cantillon dregs. I made the starter from some leftover Pale DME. There seems to be a definite "cantillon" smell to it, and you can see the yeast layer at the bottom...

Almighty · 05-25-2011, 04:38 PM

Looks good. It is pretty amazing how well some of the bottle dregs do considering for Cantillon they have been in the bottle for 3+ years and traveled across the ocean.

Good luck and please update when you use in a larger batch and add tasting notes.

stblindtiger · 05-29-2011, 07:57 PM

I just made Jamil's Flanders Red recipe. I'm going to use Cal ale yeast first, and then once that slows, I'll rack it to secondary and add the Jolly Pumpkin dregs along with Wyeast's belgian Sour Mix. I'm also going to start soaking 3 ounces of medium toast french oak cubes in Cabernet Sauvignon. I'll change out the cabernet every 3 days or so until it is time to rack it to secondary. I'm hoping this will give the oak cubes a good cabernet flavor, as well as lessen the oak taste a bit. Once the bubbler starts to slow down, I'll rack to secondary (I bought a new bottling bucket with a spout at the bottom for sampling) and add the oak cubes, Jolly Pumpkin dregs, along with Wyeast's Sour Mix. I may even add some currants if I can find them.

I had a La Roja on Friday (and added the dregs to the other Jolly Pumpkin starter) and absolutely loved it! I am basically combining recipes from my three favorite beers. BYO's La Roja Clone recipe, and the Flanders Red recipe from Jamil's Brewing classic styles(Rodenbach), then adding some currants and Cabernet Sauvignon to be a little like RR Consecration. I'll have to see if I can find a Consecration somewhere to add some of those dregs as well. We'll see how it turns out!

I'm still not sure what to do with the Wild yeast yet though.... or the Cantillon starter for that matter!

Almighty · 05-31-2011, 04:21 PM

Sounds good except I have a couple of suggestions.

1) 3 oz of Oak cubes is a lot. I used 1.25 oz for my Flanders red with the same type of Oak and the Oak is definitely noticeable. If you really want a lot of Oak maybe add some now and taste in a few months and add more if you think it needs it. For a Flanders Red the Oak should not be a dominant flavor, but if that is your preference go for it.

2) As for the wine, I think it is a better option to add to taste when bottling or kegging. To me there is no reason it needs to be added to the beer now.

3) Are you going to age this beer a plastic bucket with a spigot? I would be concerned with too much oxygen. Some people have gotten away with it, but just for a few months.

I have had good luck with Better Bottles and they make spigots for those. I just use an old auto-siphon or you can use a wine thief or turkey baster. I don't think there is any problem with disturbing the pellicle once every 3 months.