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Prionburger 08-13-2011 08:07 PM

American Saison idea
 
Throwing this idea out there.

Saison with American ingredients. Huge head, dank hops, American malts, and funk. Aged for 6 months to a year with some oak. I bet someone has thought of this before.

For a 6 gallon batch:

OG 1.060 IBU ~37

10 Lbs American pilsner
2 lbs Vienna
1 lb flaked wheat

Bittering hops:

~1.5oz Northern Brewer 60 min

Later additions:

~0.5oz Cluster 30 min

~1.5oz Cluster 1 min (or maybe dry hop before bottling)

Yeast: Small active starter of Jolly Pumpkin dregs, and a starter of 3711 French Saison, added at the same time. Maybe 3724 for more residual sugar/more funk.

American oak cubes would be added in secondary.

Conditioning in champagne bottles to ~4 volumes.

Disaster?

TheBaconator 08-17-2011 04:50 PM

Looks pretty awesome to me, although I'm not sure what funk you're going to get from the Belgian Saison yeast. From my experience this one ferments pretty clean and dry. Maybe a little bit of spice character. Anywho, if its funk you're after you may want some lacto or brett in there at some point. Let me know how it turns out!

Guess42 08-17-2011 06:39 PM

He would get the funk from the JP dregs. Looks tasty, but why the vienna?

Rivenin 08-17-2011 06:48 PM

i'd drink it!

zendog 08-18-2011 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prionburger
Throwing this idea out there.

Saison with American ingredients. Huge head, dank hops, American malts, and funk. Aged for 6 months to a year with some oak. I bet someone has thought of this before.

For a 6 gallon batch:

OG 1.060 IBU ~37

10 Lbs American pilsner
2 lbs Vienna
1 lb flaked wheat

Bittering hops:

~1.5oz Northern Brewer 60 min

Later additions:

~0.5oz Cluster 30 min

~1.5oz Cluster 1 min (or maybe dry hop before bottling)

Yeast: Small active starter of Jolly Pumpkin dregs, and a starter of 3711 French Saison, added at the same time. Maybe 3724 for more residual sugar/more funk.

American oak cubes would be added in secondary.

Conditioning in champagne bottles to ~4 volumes.

Disaster?

Brewed one with straight American 2 row, mt. Hood and Columbus. Dh with Columbus. Used Dupont strain from WL. Didn't last long at the party. Went over well with the ladies, too!

Brek81 08-18-2011 05:07 AM

needs corn :P

Prionburger 08-18-2011 05:38 AM

Yeah, Jolly Pumpkin dregs for some mixed fermentation. If I can snag some WLP670 left-overs, I may use that instead of 565/3724.

The vienna is to boost the maltiness a bit. I like what it does in EdWort's pale ale. Never used it in a Saison. I did a SMASH saison before and wanted a bit more maltiness.

That's awesome zendog! When it goes well with the ladies you know it's a winner. Hopefully mine will have too much sour horse-vomit-blanket for anyone but the nerdliest of beer nerds.

Yeah, corn... You're right, but I'm afraid of corn! But you're right... Corn. :ban:

DannPM 08-19-2011 05:50 AM

37 IBUs will inhibit a lot of the the funk from the Jolly Pumpkin dregs. Pedio and Lacto need under roughly 10 IBUs to work. The antibacterial action of hops works particularly well inhibiting these. I'd suggest splitting the batch, 3711 in one half, and funk the other. Hop the 3711 high enough to get 37 IBUs after blending, don't hop the other half and funk it. After both are complete fermenting/souring, blend to taste, and package. You may even try splitting it 75/25, 3711/dregs, to prevent it from being too sour.

Prionburger 08-19-2011 06:54 AM

For sure those acids are going to inhibit microbes, but check it out: Madrugada Obscura is hopped at about 36 IBU. That thing gets some pretty awesome sourness as it gets close to a year old. I bet those bugs will do whatever they do in a 37 beer. It'll make a difference in the kind of funking though, for sure. No idea how it works with 3724 or 3711 either. 3724 may attenuate less that WLP550, so I may get even more bug food than the corresponding Jolly Pumpkin beer!

That's a good idea about blending a funked batch with a less funked one. Maybe on infected only with brett, and one soured?

smokinghole 08-19-2011 11:23 AM

My thought is to just do it all in one fermentor. You'll get sourness even at 37ibus. Jolly Pumpkin has bacteria with house character that are stronger more resilient strains than what WYeast and White Labs sell. Just throw it all in there. The funk and sourness may not be very pronounced if you use 3711 because that will consume damn near every sugar present. I did a saison with a similar malt bill beginning of summer with 3711 and it went down to 1.005. So I'd just do a dupont strain and JP or something.


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