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**GilaMinumBeer** · 06-28-2012, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopherM

LOL...this is where I beg to differ. Commence rant!

There are some styles that ARE strictly defined, like the Hefeweizens, Lagers, Kolsch examples I used. You simply CAN'T make a Hefeweizen without at least 50% of the grain bill being wheat malt and the hops being noble hops. There ARE German regulations that strictly define the style as such! If your beer has 49% wheat, it ISN'T a Hefewiezen any more than it is a Diet Cherry Coke with lime.

Lagers.....no matter what Cooper's says, you can't make a Lager without lager yeast and a proper lagering procedure. The style has these strict minimum requirements. Add all you want from there, but you CAN NOT subtract these defining characteristics.

Kolsch - Kolsch yeasts are engineered to have the phenoyl characteristics of an ale, but the finishing characteristics of a lager. You CAN NOT make a Kolsch without Kolsch yeast. It is the defining characteristic. It's a rule! It is silly to make a beer with Two-row, Citra, and S-05 and call it a Kolsch, just because you like the way it sounds. It's ignorant.

Sorry, this is the arguement I always get into. There are established standards for a good number of beer styles. You can choose to not acknowledge these standards, but that doesn't make you right. It makes you anti-social. YOUCANNOTPUTSPACINGORPUNCTUATIONINYOURPOSTBECAUSEY OUDONTBELIEVEINITBUTBYTHEESTABLISHEDSTANDARDSYOUAR EWRONG. Without rules and definitions, there is only chaos.

Rant over!

It's staggering how narrow this mindset is in regard to beer. Even Webster adapts annually to incorporate modern habits. Whether YOU like it or not.

bobbrews · 06-28-2012, 04:29 PM

Other than the "too much crystal" - "weird fruit or spice additions" - "too little hops" - "too high FG" pet peeves... There are also a lot of new brewers who make unforgiveable mistakes that make me think they were really, really drunk while brewing.

"I forgot to add my bittering hops" or "Oops, I added the bittering hops late and aroma hops early".
"I accidentally used 2 lbs of acid malt instead of 2 oz. How do I fix it?"

Use your noggin's guys!! I typically X out those posts right away because the best thing those brewers can do is read Palmer, not post on a message board for a quick-fix to a crazy issue.

**GilaMinumBeer** · 06-28-2012, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterTipsy

Other people's recipes don't grind my gears. I consider myself lucky in that regard.

Brewers who absolutely must brew to style make my eyes roll a bit, but they don't grind my gears.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawksBrewer

This +1000. I like to brew good beer that my friends, family and I like to drink. I don't give a s#!t what anyone else says. If they have a problem w/ what I call it I will present it as such: "Would you like a beer styled beer?"

People who MUST brew to the guidelines do not grind my gears. If anything, it pays homage to the originator.

People who insist that a beer is not a beer because it does not conform (even when they have been shut down by proving that it does conform) and insist that it be called something else, grind my gears.

It's a guideline pure and simple. There are no federal mandates to say this is how it has to be. There are no fines for straying outside of them. In fact, in reality, they are more religious or cultists than anything.

**passedpawn** · 06-28-2012, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbrews

Other than the "too much crystal" - "weird fruit or spice additions" - "too little hops" - "too high FG" pet peeves... There are also a lot of new brewers who make unforgiveable mistakes that make me think they were really, really drunk while brewing.

"I forgot to add my bittering hops" or "Oops, I added the bittering hops late and aroma hops early".
"I accidentally used 2 lbs of acid malt instead of 2 oz. How do I fix it?"

Use your noggin's guys!! I typically X out those posts right away because the best thing those brewers can do is read Palmer, not post on a message board for a quick-fix to a crazy issue.

Well, Bob, many/most brewers drink while brewing. If most people drank while driving I'd expect a lot more accidents. Dumb errors are unfortunately built into the process.

**JonM** · 06-28-2012, 04:41 PM

My coconut raspberry chocolate smoked bacon blueberry Earl Grey coffee pecan marinara and watermelon wheat. Whaddya think?

MisterTipsy · 06-28-2012, 04:42 PM

The next recipe I post here will be a Robust Porter with a pilsen/crystal 10 grain bill just to grind peoples' gears.

TheZymurgist · 06-28-2012, 04:42 PM

Like it or not, Topher's right. There are style guidelines to define standards that help describe a beer. Otherwise it's all just beer. That doesn't mean you can't deviate from these styles, brew whatever the hell you want to! But you can't call a lager an ale, and an ale a lager. It just doesn't make sense. If it doesn't fit a style, make up your own. Call it a specialty beer, or a hybrid. I understand the rant against the people that only brew to style, that's no fun. But it is good to have a standard to compare your processes and final products to. If that doesn't interest you, don't worry about it. Just brew what you want.

Personally, I like making beer that I like to drink, whether it's within a style or not. I do like to to try to brew something to style every once in a while to make sure I'm able to hit certain targets and standards. It's a challenge.

I don't really see the point in discussing "Recipe Pet Peeves" though. Let people experiment and learn from mistakes. Shoot, if someone like using 50% Crystal - 120L in their beer, let them. It won't belong to any defined style, and I wouldn't want to drink it, but if they do then more power to them. If they try to call that beer a Pilsner, then there's an issue. Otherwise, I don't see a problem.

TheZymurgist · 06-28-2012, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GilaMinumBeer

It's staggering how narrow this mindset is in regard to beer. Even Webster adapts annually to incorporate modern habits. Whether YOU like it or not.

But WHY does Webster adapt??? If they didn't, they would be seen as outdated, and their product wouldn't sell.

It is possible for once credible sources to loose credibility. Besides, if you haven't noticed, the standards for defining beer styles has adapted greatly to incorporate many of the newer styles that have recently been created, and will continue to do so.

MisterTipsy · 06-28-2012, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonM

My coconut raspberry chocolate smoked bacon blueberry Earl Grey coffee pecan marinara and watermelon wheat. Whaddya think?

Ditch the bacon, marinara and watermelon and you might have something drinkable there.

**GilaMinumBeer** · 06-28-2012, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheZymurgist

Like it or not, Topher's right. There are style guidelines to define standards that help describe a beer. Otherwise it's all just beer. That doesn't mean you can't deviate from these styles, brew whatever the hell you want to! But you can't call a lager an ale, and an ale a lager. It just doesn't make sense. If it doesn't fit a style, make up your own. Call it a specialty beer, or a hybrid. I understand the rant against the people that only brew to style, that's no fun. But it is good to have a standard to compare your processes and final products to. If that doesn't interest you, don't worry about it. Just brew what you want.

When competing, sure, Tropher is correct. There has to be some way to define what is being judged. And on a corprorate level of brewing, I accept that. But on the BJCP level, it's a joke. It's all as subjectiveas the competance level of the judge holding the sample.

The tragedy here is that this mindset comkpletely disregards the romanticism of what it took for the originator to develope said beer. If you read into teh historical aspect of many styles, most came about of necessity and dumb luck. Noble hops were used cause that is all they could get, a certain malt was used cause it was the only thing available, etc...