Electric Brewing Supply 30A BCS Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Recipes/Ingredients > Wyeast 2124 vs. Fermentis Saflager W-34/70
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07-01-2012, 10:12 PM   #1
NigeltheBold
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 127
Default Wyeast 2124 vs. Fermentis Saflager W-34/70

I trying to brew something similar to a lager, but I don't have lagering capabilities. I can only ferment at 65-68 degrees. I'd like to use an actual lager yeast, not a steam beer yeast and I was looking on the Wyeast website for a suitable strain. According to many, the 2124 strain (Bohemian Lager) can ferment in the upper 60's and still produce some lager-like characteristics without harmful side effects. Just out of curiosity, I checked to see if there was a dry yeast equivalent to this strain, and I've found a couple of sources that are saying that Fermentis Saflager W-34/70 is equivalent to the Wyeast 2124. Is this accurate information? Is it equivalent, or just a good substitute?

According to Fermentis, you don't want to use W-34/70 at ale temperatures because it will produce unwanted characteristics. But if it's the same as Wyeast 2124 (which can be used at ale temps with no problems), why can't it be used at ale temps?

__________________
NigeltheBold is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-01-2012, 10:26 PM   #2
ISUBrew79
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Iowa
Posts: 205
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts

Default

You can use the "swamp cooler" method for fermenting lagers. Put your fermenter into a large, preferably insulated, tub filled with cold water. Drop in a couple frozen 2-liter bottles into the water bath. Swap out the soda bottles with frozen bottles from the freezer every 12 hours or so. I have been able to maintain ~50 deg F temperatures this way in a 75 F ambient environment.

I live in an apartment where space is a concern, and have successfully fermented lagers this way several times.

__________________
College Creek Brewing Company, est. 2008
Primary: Belma/Cascade Pale Ale, Cranberry Melomel
Secondary: None
Bottled: Imperial Pumpkin Ale, Founder's Breakfast Stout Clone

On Tap:
Keg 1: Belgian Table Beer
Keg 2: Belgian Tripel
ISUBrew79 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-02-2012, 12:09 AM   #3
NigeltheBold
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 127
Default

I don't want to mess with the swamp cooler technique, but thanks for the advice. I just want to know if my beer will end up tasting bad if I use W-34/70 at ale temperatures.

__________________
NigeltheBold is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-02-2012, 12:54 AM   #4
ghpeel
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 1,216
Liked 21 Times on 19 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Well if Fermentis says it's no good at ale temps I'm not sure why you'd assume any different. If you have an aversion to swamp coolers, then can you lager at all? If not, why are you trying to make a lager? And why the aversion to the lager strains that actually work at ale temps? Seems like you want to make a style that you simply don't have the gear for.

If you just want something crisp and clean but that doesn't taste like a steam beer then I'd suggest Kolsch yeast, with a 3 week rotation of the carbed bottles in the fridge before you drink.

__________________

=============================================

Kegged: Dunkelweizen
Primary: American Pale Ale

ghpeel is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-02-2012, 01:03 AM   #5
NigeltheBold
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 127
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghpeel View Post
Well if Fermentis says it's no good at ale temps I'm not sure why you'd assume any different. If you have an aversion to swamp coolers, then can you lager at all? If not, why are you trying to make a lager? And why the aversion to the lager strains that actually work at ale temps? Seems like you want to make a style that you simply don't have the gear for.

If you just want something crisp and clean but that doesn't taste like a steam beer then I'd suggest Kolsch yeast, with a 3 week rotation of the carbed bottles in the fridge before you drink.
As I said in the original post, it's supposed to be equivalent to Wyeast 2124, which is apparently decent at ale temperatures. If they're equivalent yeasts, why would one manufacturer say it's fine at ale temps and the other say it's not? Fermentis only gives a temperature range, but they don't specify what will happen if you ferment outside of that range. That's why I'm asking.

I don't have the gear to make a "real" lager, but I'd like to use what I have to get something close to a lager. I would prefer a dry yeast because it is cheaper and keeps longer. I could go ahead and just buy the Wyeast 2124, but if there is an equivalent dry yeast, I'll definitely buy that. I just wondered why Wyeast says it does fine at ale temps but Fermentis does not...

So if anyone has an actual answer to my question instead of alternative methods, I would really appreciate the input.
__________________
NigeltheBold is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-02-2012, 01:10 AM   #6
rockfish42
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Merced, CA
Posts: 814
Liked 18 Times on 17 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

I used 34/70 at 65 degrees and produced essentially a steam beer, it was very reminiscent of the character I'd get from the Anchor strain.

__________________
rockfish42 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-02-2012, 05:50 PM   #7
ISUBrew79
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Iowa
Posts: 205
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NigeltheBold View Post
As I said in the original post, it's supposed to be equivalent to Wyeast 2124, which is apparently decent at ale temperatures. If they're equivalent yeasts, why would one manufacturer say it's fine at ale temps and the other say it's not? Fermentis only gives a temperature range, but they don't specify what will happen if you ferment outside of that range. That's why I'm asking.

I don't have the gear to make a "real" lager, but I'd like to use what I have to get something close to a lager. I would prefer a dry yeast because it is cheaper and keeps longer. I could go ahead and just buy the Wyeast 2124, but if there is an equivalent dry yeast, I'll definitely buy that. I just wondered why Wyeast says it does fine at ale temps but Fermentis does not...

So if anyone has an actual answer to my question instead of alternative methods, I would really appreciate the input.
Wyeast 2124 and Saflager W34/70 both originated from the same Weihenstephan strain. However, I suspect that over time there has been a slight mutation from the original strain in the dry Saflager product. The drying process itself may have a lot to do with how that yeast performs at warm temperatures compared to a liquid strain.

When you say you can only ferment at 65-68 degrees, is that ambient air temperature or temperature of the wort? I carried out an ale fermentation once at 68-70 ambient where the actual wort temperature rose to 82 F within the first 18 hours just from the heat generated by yeast metabolism.

Without a means of temperature control, I believe it will be difficult to create a beer with clean lager character at ambient temperatures. That's not to say that you can't make a good drinkable beer, though. I will say I've never fermented with a lager yeast this way, so I'm just speculating here.

Why not go ahead and make a batch with the W34/70 and see how it performs? I'm curious to know how it turns out.
__________________
College Creek Brewing Company, est. 2008
Primary: Belma/Cascade Pale Ale, Cranberry Melomel
Secondary: None
Bottled: Imperial Pumpkin Ale, Founder's Breakfast Stout Clone

On Tap:
Keg 1: Belgian Table Beer
Keg 2: Belgian Tripel
ISUBrew79 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-02-2012, 06:39 PM   #8
NigeltheBold
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 127
Default

65-68 degrees would be the ambient (room) temperature. My fermentations usually only increase the temperature of the wort by 1-2 degrees. I appreciate the information about the two yeast strains. I'm still debating whether I should use the liquid or dry. I would hate to make a 5g batch of beer that comes out tasting really bad. If anybody else has any input about the dry vs. liquid form, please let me know. Thanks!

__________________
NigeltheBold is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-02-2012, 07:02 PM   #9
Wortly
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 8
Default

I'm doing a 10 gallon batch from a third generation of 34/70 right now. The second generation tastes very smooth to me after 10 days ferment and 2 1/2 weeks in the fridge. I ferment in the basement and temps average in the 65 degree range.

__________________
Wortly is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fermentis S-04 discgolfin Recipes/Ingredients 23 05-08-2012 04:26 PM
WYeast 2124 Bohemian lager not fermenting 5 days boothbrew Recipes/Ingredients 10 10-28-2011 02:38 PM
Wyeast 2124/ Funky sherry smell? Want2Brew Recipes/Ingredients 1 11-28-2009 10:09 AM
Fermentis Saflager: s-23 vs. w-34/70 ChrisS68 Recipes/Ingredients 12 02-05-2009 03:02 AM
Fermentis T-58 Reverend JC Recipes/Ingredients 6 05-23-2008 04:04 AM