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Old 08-19-2008, 02:13 PM   #21
srm775
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I'd like to point out, that avoiding HSA doesn't hurt the beer either.
And the theories change so often.... I won't be suprised when in a few months we will hear that HSA is dangerous..
Taking normal precautions isn't going to hurt anything, but since I've been reading online digests and forums starting back in 2001/2002 the overwhelming consensus has been that HSA is a myth.
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Old 08-19-2008, 02:28 PM   #22
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I don't worry about it cause the microbreweries don't worry about it. Have you ever seen the way they sparge, its crazy. The cip ball sprays water all over the place and foam starts to form on top it just looks it a disaster waiting to happen but you taste the beer a few weeks later and its fine.

We all know that the colder the wort the easier it is to oxygenate, so it would be difficult to introduce oxygen into hot wort.

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Old 08-20-2008, 03:44 AM   #23
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Years ago I read that Coors did an HSA experiment. They injected pure O2 into hot wort to try to induce HSA. The batch that received the HSA treatment had a reduced shelf life of something really small, like days or a week compared to the average. HSA is a myth.

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Old 08-20-2008, 06:22 AM   #24
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What about DMS with the pre-chill 20 min whirlpool?

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Old 08-20-2008, 08:54 AM   #25
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Darn it all to hades, the_bird stoled my thunder.
I FEAR nothing, but I'm sure careful on some things.
HSA - My beers are usually so in your face a little cardboard would be a nice soft landing from the mouth slaps.

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Old 08-20-2008, 11:44 AM   #26
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since I've been reading online digests and forums starting back in 2001/2002 the overwhelming consensus has been that HSA is a myth.
Sorry, I didn't follow the discussion. Are there any hard, experimental data involved, or just the "I made a beer with HSA and it is delicious" thing?
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Old 08-23-2008, 02:44 PM   #27
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Well, I believe in HSA. It was a 100% stupid move on my part. My boil pot wasn't large enough for my big extract batch. I almost had a boil over, so I transfered 1/2 of the batch into another pot thereby splitting up the boils. I did this at boil temperature. The batch definitely has an overbearing wet cardboard taste. It hasn't gotten any better after 6 months, either!!! I usually drink one from that batch after I'm already buzzed. It was the first batch I built in 8 years so I was basically a newbie, again. I knew immediately after I transferred it that I made a mistake. I'm on to all grain, now and don't worry about it a bit.

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Old 08-25-2008, 07:18 PM   #28
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Sorry, I didn't follow the discussion. Are there any hard, experimental data involved, or just the "I made a beer with HSA and it is delicious" thing?
There's some here. There was one published in an older Zymurgy magazine. And I read one on the HBD digest.

However, I mostly just pointing out that for quite some time it's been regarded as a myth by most circles of experienced homebrewers.

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Well, I believe in HSA. It was a 100% stupid move on my part. My boil pot wasn't large enough for my big extract batch. I almost had a boil over, so I transfered 1/2 of the batch into another pot thereby splitting up the boils. I did this at boil temperature. The batch definitely has an overbearing wet cardboard taste. It hasn't gotten any better after 6 months, either!!! I usually drink one from that batch after I'm already buzzed. It was the first batch I built in 8 years so I was basically a newbie, again. I knew immediately after I transferred it that I made a mistake. I'm on to all grain, now and don't worry about it a bit.
Not to stir-up the debate on HSA anymore, but you might want to look at the link I noted above. HSA doesn't occur during the boil, but pre and post boil.

I mention this only because HSA may not be the culprit in your off beer and may be something else. I would hate for you to not properly correct the problem (if it is indeed something else) and end up with another bad beer on your hands.
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Old 08-25-2008, 07:25 PM   #29
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I mention this only because HSA may not be the culprit in your off beer and may be something else. I would hate for you to not properly correct the problem (if it is indeed something else) and end up with another bad beer on your hands.
+1 on this...this is why I really don't recommend that inexperienced brewers self diagnose their beers if they haven't been brewing for awhile...

You wouldn't self diagnose a major illness based on what you read in a book, nor would you like a first year medical student to diagnose an illness on you, based on what s/he has only read about....A trained physician CAN diagnose an illness based on their experience as a doctor, combined with something they read in a book (think the tv show House with all the mystery diseases he treats) but minus the actual experience , it is really just conjecture.

A lot of the inexperience brewers on here who self diagnose this problem are extract brewers (like Salad) and panic that they are splashing around their hot extract. But as it says here,

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The second class of HSA is wort aeration after boiling. The only real consequence I have seen cited about aeration after the boil is an increase in wort color. Keep in mind that very hot wort, wort right after the boil, does not permit much oxygen into solution and under normal brewery conditions this probably won’t cause much wort darkening.
This has been my theory about how so many things that are of concern to the commercial industry (but not for homebrewers) crosses into the homwbrew culture and become an urban legend to us...

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The confusing part for the homebrewer is that many writers who write for homebrew publications also work in the commercial-brewing arena, and commercial-brewing concerns frequently become homebrew concerns.
We have to remember that we are not making BMC that is so stripped of flavor, and is made to taste the same everytime; where even the slightest FLAVOR (off or otherwise) translates into million dollars of lost revenue... They need to make sure that every drop has the same flavorless flavor, that people are accustomed to.

Think of there beer as anemic, and so weak that it can get "sick" at the drop of a hat, while our homebrew, which is unfiltered and un pansturized is "tough and manly."

To give you an example of how hardy our beers are, EVEN IN TERMS OF OXYGENATION DANGER, here are the instructions for a clone of DFH 120...

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Oxygen was added once daily for 4 days. 30 seconds @ 1200 psi with 0.2 micron SS Stone.
What they mean is duiring the first 4 days after they pitched the yeast, they recommend that you inject 30 seconds worth of oxygen into it. Now granted this is a very high grav beer...But it goes to illustrate that it takes a lot of O2 to damage even our normal homebrew...more than we would do in a lot of our brewing activities.
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