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Old 10-15-2012, 05:25 PM   #31
rjschroed
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I finally got around to brewing this last weekend. New job = less time for brewing for a while there. 10 gal batch, here is the recipe I used:

29.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 93.55 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %
1.00 lb White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 3.23 %

1.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [13.90 %] (60 min) Hops 29.1 IBU
2.00 oz Centennial [8.70 %] (30 min) Hops 18.6 IBU
2.00 oz Citra [13.90 %] (15 min) Hops 19.2 IBU
1.50 oz Amarillo Gold [10.30 %] (15 min) Hops 10.7 IBU
0.50 oz Simcoe [12.20 %] (15 min) Hops 4.2 IBU
3.00 oz Citra [11.40 %] (0 min) Hops -
0.50 oz Simcoe [12.20 %] (0 min) Hops -
1.50 oz Amarillo Gold [10.30 %] (0 min) Hops -
2.00 oz Amarillo Gold [10.30 %] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
2.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
4.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -

I got a pitch of US-05 yeast from a local brewery, you could also use WLP-001 or wyeast 1056.

I'll let you know how it turns out in a few weeks.

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Old 10-15-2012, 07:41 PM   #32
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Can't wait to hear. This is prob my favorite I have had to date at this price point. It's just a fantastic beer.

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Old 10-16-2012, 04:48 PM   #33
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In case anyone was wondering, I originally designed this recipe for 5 gallons, at which time I had plenty of hops (mainly citra) to make this happen. My buddy caught wind of what I was doing and pretty much begged me to make this a 10 gallon batch. Which immediately became problematic. . . I either had to find a bigger mash tun, sub some base malt out for dextrose (corn sugar), or find an extra mash tun. An extra mash tun magically appeared on brew day so I split everything down the middle and mashed in 2 tuns. I was also one ounce short on citra hops. . . so that is where the simcoe comes in. If I would have had the full 10 oz of citra hops available, I wouldn't have bothered with any simcoe on this attempt. Also, I mashed 1.5 qts/lb at 150. I almost always start with RO water and build up. I could get into a basic water chemistry bit right here but all you really need to know is try to add some gypsum.

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Old 10-16-2012, 09:56 PM   #34
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Let me know how close it is when it's ready to drink.

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Old 11-06-2012, 07:34 AM   #35
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Kegged today, initial impressions are good. I'll report back when I can get an accurate comparison.

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Old 11-18-2012, 02:05 AM   #36
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It's carbed up and several pints later I'll give you some feedback but I'll hold off on direct comparisons until later. There is more malt hanging around than I would've thought for such a simple malt bill. Lack of malt was honestly my biggest fear, but like the TBK White Rajah label says "malt, take a backseat." Backseat indeed. What I have (I'm calling it Hoptimus Prime) is definitely about the hops but there is some malt going on to keep it from being. . . I don't know. . . out of control, if just barely. Hoptimus Prime isn't overtly bitter on the palate, it's more about the hop flavor. . . as apparent by the late hop schedule. An out of this world hop profile without being overly grating on the palate. . . I love the centennial in the middle and the citra/amarillo late work great together, definitely a trio I'd put together again. The nose is incredible, lots of dank hop smell, citrus, pine held up by the sweet tropical fruit notes (Thanks to the amarillo, or is at least my belief and experience with the hop).

Okay, on to the direct comparison. I'll refer to my beer as Prime (short for Hoptimus Prime) and TBK White Rajah as Raj or the Raj. I drank both beers out of the same glass (DFH signature goblets) served at the same temp. at the same time. I keg and I had the Raj out of a bottle so I made sure to pour the same amount.

A: Both are pale golden in color. The Raj is crystal clear. Prime is mostly clear but slightly hazy (To be expected with that amount of hops). A Thin but persistent head pours on the Raj. Prime pours a nice finger and half fluffy white head that goes down eventually but remains thin and persistent. After 5 minutes the head appears the same on both. It is possible that TBK filters the Raj and that might account for the differences here.

S: Having a hard time picking out a difference here. . . literally had to have SWMBO hold them to my nose with my eyes closed to try to pick out a difference wish I would've done it triangle style though. I actually could pick out a very slight difference in the two. Prime is more tropical in the nose, Raj is more citrusy. . . the differences are MINIMAL. A dry hop of equal parts Centennial and Citra might be more appropriate. For the record, on the nose I actually thought Prime was Raj and Raj was Prime. No malt presences in the nose of either beer.

T: I'm having a hard time here too. I keep going back for a sip of one and then the other, 5 or 6 times. Differences are subtle. . . malt is ever so slight. . . barely propping up either beer. The bittering charge might be slightly greater in the Raj. . . slightly more flavor in Prime. They are super close.

M: Both are dry with moderate carbonation, to style. . . This part of the beer is easy to replicate.

O: They are both great beers.

It's close. . . really close. It's hard to say if the malt bill is perfectly cloned. There isn't enough malt going on in either beer. I'm happy enough with the malt bill though. There are some very slight differences with the hops, I already discussed them so I wont' go into it again. I feel like I'm really nit picking to find those differences. I might be interested in a bottle swap with anyone who will commit to posting an honest side by side. I'm comfortable enough with how close they are to say brew it yourself and post your own results.

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Old 11-18-2012, 02:11 AM   #37
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Old 11-18-2012, 04:25 PM   #38
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The White Rajah is filtered....does the Prime have that distinct aftertaste that Rajah does? It's the thing that makes it my favorite beer and I can pick it out of 100 beers. What changes to the recipe would you change to make it closer?

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Old 11-18-2012, 05:39 PM   #39
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Yes it has that aftertaste. The taste difference is in the mid palate and is hard to explain. . . I AM nit picking. That being said changes:

Everything here is for a 12 gallon batch of beer. That allows me to transfer 5.5 into 2, 6 gallon carboys, which lets me put 5 full gallons into the keg (honestly with so many dry hops we ended up a little shy of 5 full gallons at the end. I've been hitting 72% efficiency lately so change your base grains according leave (I'd recommend leaving the specialty malt alone)
Malt bill. . .

28 lbs 2-row (I over shot OG just a little bit)
1 lbs briess red wheat
1 lbs c-40

I thought about subing some munich into the base malt or adding some c-pils or both. It'd probably work out alright but I'm keeping is simple for now. I've decided to use red wheat now. . . I found some interesting information out about red wheat vs. white wheat, let's just say I'm a red wheat believer now. You can draw your own conclusion: http://brewingwithbriess.com/Products/Wheat.htm

Hops:

1.75 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [13.90 %] (60 min) Hops 43.8 IBU
2.00 oz Centennial [8.70 %] (30 min) Hops 16.0 IBU
1.00 oz Amarillo [10.30 %] (15 min) Hops 4.9 IBU
2.00 oz Citra [13.90 %] (15 min) Hops 13.3 IBU
3.00 oz Citra [11.40 %] (0 min) Hops -
1.00 oz Amarillo [10.30 %] (0 min) Hops -
3.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Amarillo [10.30 %] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
3.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -

I'd put a little more into the initial bittering addition. Reduced the amarillo through out and increased the centennial and reduced the citra dry hop additions to make the ratios look like this Columbus: Amarillo: Centennial: Citra 1:1:3:3. I realize it calculates at 78 IBU and the Raj is published at 70. . . I'm less interested in what either is "supposed to be" and more interested in what they taste like. The changes are minor.

I'll be getting more and more opinions on this over the coming weeks so things might change again but this is what I have for now.

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Old 11-19-2012, 10:09 PM   #40
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Did you force carb it or let it carb up in the bottle....I wonder if carbing in the bottle would change the taste.

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