Ss Brewing Technologies Giveaway!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Recipes/Ingredients > What happens when you substitute ale yeast for lager yeast?
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-01-2005, 03:32 PM   #1
Thor
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Thor's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Texas
Posts: 148
Default What happens when you substitute ale yeast for lager yeast?

I understand that California Common beers (e.g. Anchor Steam, commercially) involve using lager yeast at ale fermentation temperatures. Papazian (Joy Of Home Brewing) states that ale and lager yeasts can be substituted for one another, either way (ale for lager or vice versa).

What might happen if I used an ale yeast in a lager recipe, and fermented at ale temperatures (72 degrees or so)? Does anyone have experience with this?

I was wondering whether I might still get a lager-type beer, perhaps with a slightly different flavor. My goal is to brew a tasty lager-like beer without having to ferment at lower lager temperatures.

Thanks!

__________________

Enjoy!

-------------
On-deck: an ESB; a Sierra Nevada Porter clone; an Irish Ale
Primary: cleaning
Secondary 1: Summer Wheat
Secondary 2: American Ale
Bottled/Conditioning: Lonely
Bottled/Drinking: Heineken clone w/Calif. Ale yeast; Fat Tire clone

Thor is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-01-2005, 03:36 PM   #2
Walker
I use secondaries. :p
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Walker's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 11,236
Liked 86 Times on 77 Posts
Likes Given: 11

Default

the recipes for beer are pretty 'generic'. Ie; it doesn't become a lager or an ale until you add the appropriate yeast.

If you brew a 'lager recipe' with an ale yeast and use ale temperatures, you are just brewing an ale. Switch the yeast and temp, and you have a lager.

-walker

__________________
Ground Fault Brewing Co.
Walker is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-01-2005, 03:48 PM   #3
Walker
I use secondaries. :p
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Walker's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 11,236
Liked 86 Times on 77 Posts
Likes Given: 11

Default

I should expand on that a bit...

there are certain ingredients that appear more often in one type (lager or ale) than in the other type. Specifically, I'm thinking of corn and rice which are often used in a lager and does impart some unique flavors. But, that does not mean that adding corn or rice to a beer makes it necessarily a lager... that's all determined by the yeast and temp.

I think if you want some of the flavor commonly associated with a lager, but want to make an ale (ie; ale yeast and ale temps) you can probably add some corn and/or rice to your ale.

I personally don't like the flavors that corn and rice add, but if you do, then by all means... throw some in your ale and start fermenting!

Go for it.

-walker

__________________
Ground Fault Brewing Co.
Walker is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-01-2005, 04:32 PM   #4
drengel
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: durango, CO
Posts: 578
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

there is really only one lager yeast that you can use at those high temps and that is the san fran lager yeast. it will do well up to 68 or so degrees. ive had a bad experience using pilsner lager yeast at 66 degrees, it produced incredibly off flavors in my steam beer, which was eventually chunked, and in my friends vienna pilsner, which he hasnt chunked. but probably should. i couldnt even drink the steam beer. also those took like 3 weeks to ferment. because both used the same yeast type, and wre sitting next to each other in my cellar which is a constant 66 degrees, and the off flavors (fruity nastiness) werre similar, were pretty sure it was the yeast being at the wrong temperature. in short, i would only use the san fran lager yeast at higher temps, it will prouce clean crisp lager type characteristics.

__________________
drengel is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-01-2005, 10:33 PM   #5
Denny's Evil Concoctions
Grande Megalomaniac
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Denny's Evil Concoctions's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: West Kelowna BC, Canada
Posts: 7,767
Liked 51 Times on 42 Posts

Default

I know a lot of people use Nottingham for lager recipe's at ale temps.

I'm getting a shipment of samples from Lallemand/Danstar and will be using it in the next batch if they arrive on time. A ubrew near me uses Nottingham for all their "lagers". 75% of his customers are making commercial lager clones.

I've mentioned this another thread.
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=3214
You can also try EC1118 champagne yeast if you want a clean profile at ale temps. It works from 45° to 95°F.

I'm going to be talking to the wyeast rep. I'll ask what they suggest.

__________________

I may not be an expert, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express........ 6 months ago.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/dennys-quick-dirty-faq-153729/#post1766281

http://groups.homebrewtalk.com/Taproom_Facebook_Repository


Last edited by Denny's Evil Concoctions; 11-01-2005 at 10:37 PM.
Denny's Evil Concoctions is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-02-2005, 03:30 AM   #6
Dude
Will work for beer
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Dude's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Knob Noster, Missouri
Posts: 8,843
Liked 55 Times on 45 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny's Brew
I know a lot of people use Nottingham for lager recipe's at ale temps.

I'm getting a shipment of samples from Lallemand/Danstar and will be using it in the next batch if they arrive on time. A ubrew near me uses Nottingham for all their "lagers". 75% of his customers are making commercial lager clones.
What is a ubrew?

Using Nottingham for lagers...interesting!

Thor: I'd use the above mentioned San Fran lager yeast (WLP810 or Wyeast 2112) if you want an ale to turn out light and crisp like a lager. I've done a california common with that yeast before and it was nice. The cooler you can ferment it, the better I think.
__________________
On Tap: Lake Walk Pale Ale -- Eternity (Raspberry Stout) -- Nutrocker -- Donnybrook Dark
Primary: Lake Walk Pale Ale
Secondary: Summit IPA
Up Next: Smoked Porter -- Pub Ale -- Watermelon Wheat
Planning:
Gone But Not Forgotten:

www.IronOrrBrewery.com
Dude is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-15-2011, 08:18 PM   #7
rycov
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: conway SC., South Carolina
Posts: 1,923
Liked 22 Times on 22 Posts
Likes Given: 6

Default

so i was wanting to do a maibock but don't have temp control yet. should i use san fran lager yeast? or just some sort of ale and not worry about it? the one guy said champagne at ale temps. does that work? i know it wont be exactly to style. im ok with that. just wondering wich will get me closest or give me better results. (also i know this thread is old. i just didnt want to start a new one.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrk00k View Post
I'm getting ingredients in the mail today, and I can't even taste my beer yet. What should I do?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsweet View Post
I would make a yeast starter, and pitch it into your mailbox.
rycov is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-15-2011, 09:24 PM   #8
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 61,056
Liked 4469 Times on 3252 Posts
Likes Given: 868

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rycov View Post
so i was wanting to do a maibock but don't have temp control yet. should i use san fran lager yeast? or just some sort of ale and not worry about it? the one guy said champagne at ale temps. does that work? i know it wont be exactly to style. im ok with that. just wondering wich will get me closest or give me better results. (also i know this thread is old. i just didnt want to start a new one.
I'd recommend doing it with a very clean ale yeast like nottingham, and doing it as cool as you can. If you can do it at 58-65 degrees (beer temp, not air temp), it should be pretty "clean" like a lager. I would NOT use champagne or other wine yeast.
__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006
Yooper is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-15-2011, 10:06 PM   #9
rycov
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: conway SC., South Carolina
Posts: 1,923
Liked 22 Times on 22 Posts
Likes Given: 6

Default

yeah. i was thinking that sounded weird. thanks Yooper

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrk00k View Post
I'm getting ingredients in the mail today, and I can't even taste my beer yet. What should I do?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsweet View Post
I would make a yeast starter, and pitch it into your mailbox.
rycov is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-28-2011, 07:58 PM   #10
meisterbrewer
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: El Dorado, ks
Posts: 12
Default

Interesting. I've been using nottingham for all my brews. So, being that I want to brew a bud clone (just to show I can, not cuz it's the end all be all of my brewing) I'll just stick with that, and add some rice, maybe corn. I dunno, the last light colored ale I tried to brew didn't come out light, pretty much amber. Probably I used to much LME, I'm told. So it'll just be xtra light DME and rice syrup. Does it matter if the rice syrup is liquid, or is solid ok? Rice syrup solids is all they had at the store.

__________________
meisterbrewer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Best Yeast Substitute for Montrachet Yeast? jhonda00 Wine Making Forum 5 10-13-2009 01:18 AM
Is culturing lager yeast from a bottle harder than ale yeast? hexmonkey Fermentation & Yeast 2 08-31-2009 05:23 PM
Yeast substitute? tireater Recipes/Ingredients 5 04-23-2009 06:36 PM
Substitute Ale Yeast for Lager Yeast? c1377 Recipes/Ingredients 5 07-17-2008 05:35 AM
using substitute yeast Wild Duk Extract Brewing 4 03-21-2008 04:56 PM