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08-06-2009, 09:13 PM
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#1
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 49
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Vienna vs. Pale Ale Malt (e.g. Maris Otter)?
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To this point in my brewing progression, I have been using canadian 2-row as my base malt and adding speacialty malts from there based on the style. I want to start playing around with other base malts like Marris Otter, Vienna, Munich etc. but before I do I have a question for the folks here who have used these malts. What is the difference between Vienna (3-4L) and a Pale Ale Malt (such as Maris Otter, 2-3L)? Vienna has a slightly higher color, indicating that it is likely kilned to a higher temperature but not much. So what exactly would the flavor differences be? Is it worth using both malts or could I get away with one and use it interchangeably for both? Any and all input welcome.
Cheers,
Greg
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08-06-2009, 09:21 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: north Georgia
Posts: 1,352
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I have not used MO (yet), but I got a sack of Vienna and have really been enjoying the differences compared to 2row (I have candian 2 row as well). I would say there are going to be specific flavors to MO, so I will wait to hear folks chime in on this.
My brewery is trying to accept a house flavor that buys some grains in bulk and subs for others... I will use vienna in place of munich or MO... I know this is not getting to the same place as the original recipe, but right now, I am brewing for my self and my neighborhood, so it is all good for me. For now.
My opinion will likely change after I buy a bag of MO next time!
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08-06-2009, 10:04 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Yankee Hill, CA
Posts: 1,396
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I've used Vienna as a base in my last couple brews, it really just has more of Malty presence than two row. Not necesarily sweeter, just more flavor. I use MO as a base malt in my Pale Ale, but I also use some Carapils and about lb of other crystal malts, so it's hard to say what MO really brings to the table. But it's a pretty full flavored beer, Take that FWIW. If you have time and space you could do a SMaSH with each, then you'll really know. I did a Vienna SMaSH with Simcoe and I'm loving it.  |
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08-06-2009, 11:54 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregdech
To this point in my brewing progression, I have been using canadian 2-row as my base malt and adding speacialty malts from there based on the style. I want to start playing around with other base malts like Marris Otter, Vienna, Munich etc. but before I do I have a question for the folks here who have used these malts. What is the difference between Vienna (3-4L) and a Pale Ale Malt (such as Maris Otter, 2-3L)? Vienna has a slightly higher color, indicating that it is likely kilned to a higher temperature but not much. So what exactly would the flavor differences be? Is it worth using both malts or could I get away with one and use it interchangeably for both? Any and all input welcome.
Cheers,
Greg
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It really depends on what you are brewing. Think of brewing like cooking, which it closely parallels. You can make a cheeseburger with ground turkey instead of ground beef and it will still be a burger but the two will not taste the same. Re Vienna I assume you are talking about German Vienna malt as opposed to North American Vienna malt. All the malts you mentioned are produced from different types of barley. Domestic (US/Canada) 2-row, UK 2-row (specifically Maris-Otter, there are lots of others and all are pretty good) and German 2-row (which can be malted and kilned into pilsner, Vienna or Munich malt). Everybody has their opinion and mine is that the European malts have better flavor. Chew a few barleycorns of UK pale and then follow it with some North American pale to illustrate the difference. I would definitely suggest the use of UK malts for UK beer styles and the same goes for German/Continental malts and beers. Subbing and mixing & matching is up to you but before doing that I suggest brewing some traditional styles with the appropriate malts so will know what they taste like in the beer. |
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08-07-2009, 12:13 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Dickinson Texas
Posts: 1,452
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This link comes in handy from time to time with grain descriptions .
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08-07-2009, 01:00 AM
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#6
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Maniacally Malty
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 21,798
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Maris Otter is grainier, breadier...Vienna is cleaner but gives a bold malt presence.
Best way I can describe it off the top of my head. Marris Otter has a character I really can't describe.
Maris Otter is better for english or american style beers...ESB, IPA, etc. Vienna is good for german styles...malty lagers, hefeweizens, etc. and can make a very interesting (and different) Pale Ale.
I use Vienna in a ton of my recipes. Maris Otter is reserved just for my english style beers. This is one of my favorite beers...
Vienna Pale Ale:
10 lbs Vienna Malt mashed at 152°F
1 oz Northern Brewer (8%AA) @ 60 minutes
1 oz Northern Brewer (8%AA) @ 20 minutes
1 oz Northern Brewer (8%AA) @ 5 minutes
1 Pack of Nottingham dry yeast
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08-07-2009, 02:08 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: north Georgia
Posts: 1,352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathBrewer
Vienna Pale Ale:
10 lbs Vienna Malt mashed at 152°F
1 oz Northern Brewer (8%AA) @ 60 minutes
1 oz Northern Brewer (8%AA) @ 20 minutes
1 oz Northern Brewer (8%AA) @ 5 minutes
1 Pack of Nottingham dry yeast
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Death speaks.... and I think I am going to brew this... got a MO recipe for a good character comparison? Maybe I will get some. |
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08-07-2009, 03:07 PM
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#8
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Maniacally Malty
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 21,798
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Maris Otter + Fuggle would make an awesome Single Malt And Single Hop brew. Nottingham yeast would work there, too.
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08-07-2009, 03:26 PM
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#9
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 49
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Thanks for the input folks. The main reason for the inquiry was because I am almost out of 2-row (I bought 2 25kg bags a while back) and will need to buy more base malt soon. I am contemplating buying 2 different base malts but cost is certainly a factor. Obviously living on the canadian prairies, the canadian 2-row can be had for relatively cheap. But the other base malts (Vienna and MO) are more expensive and as such I'm wondering if its worth it to have a whole 25 kg bag on hand. I think my best course of action will be to do a couple of SMaSH beers with each malt to get a feel for them relative to the 2-row and then decide from there.
Cheers,
Greg
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08-07-2009, 03:33 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 1,892
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathBrewer
Maris Otter + Fuggle would make an awesome Single Malt And Single Hop brew. Nottingham yeast would work there, too.
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Death,
I'm thinking of doing a MO smash. I was planning to use Saaz. Will the Saaz work well with the MO, or should I use something else? 
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