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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Recipes/Ingredients > Victory and Chaos IPA (How to brew book)
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:31 AM   #1
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Default Victory and Chaos IPA (How to brew book)

I was brewing Victory and Chaos IPA from the Palmer's book. The beer was drinkable, but not as I expected. I did a few mistakes and also choose bad substitutions, so I finished with light malt beer with no body and no hop flavor or bitterness.

After discussion in another thread, I would like to discuss my second attempt with you before brewing.

So, here is the original recipe from the book (transferred to Beersmith):

Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
10 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3,0 SRM) Grain 1 90,9 %
8,0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20,0 SRM) Grain 2 4,5 %
8,0 oz Munich Malt (9,0 SRM) Grain 3 4,5 %
1,00 oz Nugget [12,00 %] - Boil 60,0 min Hop 4 39,5 IBUs
2,00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5,00 %] - Boil 15,0 min Hop 5 16,3 IBUs
1,00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5,00 %] - Boil 5,0 min Hop 6 3,3 IBUs
1,0 pkg London Ale (White Labs #WLP013) [35,49 ml] Yeast 7 -

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1,057 SG Measured Original Gravity: 0,000 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1,015 SG Measured Final Gravity: 0,000 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5,5 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0,0 %
Bitterness: 59,1 IBUs Calories: 0,0 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 6,1 SRM

Grains:
I am getting Cara- instead of Crystal, which should be the same type only with different names.

Hops:
I cannot get Nugget and also I cannot find any of common substitutes in my shop, so I decided to use stronger AAU version of SAAZ, which most of Czech brewers use for IPA, called Premiant.

Yeast:
London is unavailable in my country, so after recommendation, I will try S-04.

So here is my slightly modified version (bold are substitutions):

Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
10 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3,0 SRM) Grain 1 90,9 %
8,0 oz Carared (20,0 SRM) Grain 2 4,5 %
8,0 oz Munich Malt (9,0 SRM) Grain 3 4,5 %
1,29 oz Premiant [9,31 %] - Boil 60,0 min Hop 4 39,5 IBUs
2,00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5,00 %] - Boil 15,0 min Hop 5 16,3 IBUs
1,00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5,00 %] - Boil 5,0 min Hop 6 3,3 IBUs
1,0 pkg SafAle English Ale (DCL/Fermentis #S-04) [23,66 ml] Yeast 7 -

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1,057 SG Measured Original Gravity: 0,000 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1,014 SG Measured Final Gravity: 0,000 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5,7 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0,0 %
Bitterness: 59,1 IBUs Calories: 0,0 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 6,1 SRM

Does it sound good? I will also dry hop this time, which means that I will use 1,00 oz EKG instead of last 5 min hop addition (according to the book instructions).

And I would like to do some modifications, so what do you think about these:

1. I don't like the color, I want it darker (amber). I also have CaraAmber from previous brewing, so I can save money . So can I use CaraAmber instead of CaraRed which gives the beer desired color (6,5 SRM) and probably a little bit more body?
- 8,0 oz Caraamber (30,0 SRM) Grain 2 4,5 %

2. I have some Cascade hops and I just purchased some Amarillo hops. Can I use them for more flavor (and how/when), or rather not?
And what about J.Palmer's instructions to skip 5 min hop addition when dry hopping - is ti OK?

Thank you all for your suggestions.

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Old 02-27-2013, 07:02 PM   #2
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The recipe looks OK for an English style IPA (although the color is a bit light). However, I read your other thread on this subject, and see that you expected more from the hops than you got. English IPAs seldom have very much hop flavor or aroma, but American IPAs do.

I don't like American IPAs very much because of the flavor of American hops, and I don't like English IPAs because they have very little hop character, so I brew a beer that is a mixture of both (using English ingredients, but with an American style hopping schedule). I would suggest 1 oz of EKG at 15, 10, 5, and 0 minutes, as well as an ounce for dry hopping. This will let you taste the hops, but the EKGs are much more subtle than American hops, so it won't taste anything like an American IPA.

Now for your questions.
1. Yes, you could use CaraAmber. I use 8 oz crystal 60L, to give the beer a copper color (about 10 SRM).
2. I wouldn't mix the Cascade hops with EKG, as the Cascades would overpower the EKG. But you could use Cascade instead of EKG for another brew.

I wouldn't skip the 5 minute addition when dry hopping, because I like the flavor and aroma of EKG.

Hope this helps.

-a.

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Old 02-27-2013, 07:31 PM   #3
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1st. You could use the CaraAmber but I'm not sure the difference will be all that noticeable in terms of color and this will not really affect body. If you really want more body mash at a higher temp. If you want color I'd try getting something along the lines of the C-60.

2nd. Your hops are two way different things. If you want a more hoppy version of the recipe you have EKG at 15, 5, 0, and a dry hop will accomplish this. If you don't like the EKG and want something completely different that would be Cascade and/or Amarillo. These are way more American meaning citrusy and will give you a completely different beer in the end.

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Old 02-27-2013, 09:05 PM   #4
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Thanks a lot for suggestions.

So I will use CaraAmber, it may be slightly darker and if it will not affect the taste, the better (so I will stay with original recipe).

About the hops, I don't know EKG. I tried in my first batch Saaz, Cascade and Willamette. Last two were almost the same to me.
This recipe should be classic English style IPA, as it is in the IPA section.
I like IPA hoppy and fruity. I like also a lot of bitterness, but not too much, so the beer is fresh and drinkable.

I choose EKG only because they are in the recipe and I was afraid to modify it, because I am beginner. So I will be glad if you give me some suggestions for hopping.

Here is my hop inventory for next batch:
Cascade 1.76 oz
Willamette 2.61 oz
Premiant 3.5 oz
EKG 3.5 oz
Amarillo 1.05 oz

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Old 02-27-2013, 09:20 PM   #5
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One addition - my favorite IPA is brewed here in the Czech Republic and is called "Matuska Raptor".
http://www.pivovarmatuska.cz/images/raptor.png

My dream is to brew simillar beer. But no one in my country is trying to brew it, so I don't have any inspiration.
I only know the ingredients from their website:
Grains - czech pilsner, munich, caramel, carapils
Hops - saaz + premiant + cascade + amarillo
Probably better than nothing, but I don't have any clue how to use these ingredients. Maybe later, when I will be more experienced, and with a lot of your help

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Old 02-27-2013, 09:29 PM   #6
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Switching from carared to caraamber WILL change the flavor. Carared is more of a candy/light sweet, and caraamber is a darker sugar flavor and much more malty. The different colors on the malts are more than just color. Not saying that you won't like the difference, but there is a difference.

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Old 02-27-2013, 10:33 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LKABrewer View Post
Switching from carared to caraamber WILL change the flavor. Carared is more of a candy/light sweet, and caraamber is a darker sugar flavor and much more malty. The different colors on the malts are more than just color. Not saying that you won't like the difference, but there is a difference.
Great, because this is what I was thinking, according to what I read in the book. In the chapter "Developing your own recipes", J.Palmer is talking about more body, which you can get by adding more unfermentable sugars. And these are in more roasted malts.

Maybe I rely too much on this book, but I think it is awesome. I got it as xmass gift and before that, I didn't know nothing about brewing. And after month, I brewed my 1st batch.
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Old 03-17-2013, 06:09 PM   #8
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posted in wrong setion, sorry

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