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Old 01-02-2008, 10:37 PM   #1
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Default Two Hearted Clone w/ Orange?

I picked up some Two-Hearted last week while I was in North Carolina, because we can't get it here in Illinois. Man, I love that beer!

Anyways, I was drinking one, and comparing it to a clone recipe I recently made. The Two-Hearted has a very distinct orangey flavor. It is not the same as the grapefruit flavor I have normally tasted. So I was wondering if I could maybe use an orange or two in my next batch to see if I could get my clone closer to the real thing? Has anyone tried using citrus fruits in an IPA?

I imagine that for the most part, most good hops like Cascades have a great citrusy flavor that is enough for most people. But I want more of that flavor with less bitter, so would oranges/grapefruits be a good idea or bad?

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Old 01-02-2008, 11:37 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chase
I picked up some Two-Hearted last week while I was in North Carolina, because we can't get it here in Illinois. Man, I love that beer!

Anyways, I was drinking one, and comparing it to a clone recipe I recently made. The Two-Hearted has a very distinct orangey flavor. It is not the same as the grapefruit flavor I have normally tasted. So I was wondering if I could maybe use an orange or two in my next batch to see if I could get my clone closer to the real thing? Has anyone tried using citrus fruits in an IPA?

I imagine that for the most part, most good hops like Cascades have a great citrusy flavor that is enough for most people. But I want more of that flavor with less bitter, so would oranges/grapefruits be a good idea or bad?
I've been contemplating doing an orangey amber (or pale) ale as a house lawnmower beer for the summer. Maybe with a hint of clove (Not as spicy as a winter/holiday beer.)

I've thought around the same lines as you doing an IPA with Orange and clove, but with a not so strong hop character, so my domestic swill drinking friends would actually get turned on to a beer with body and flavor.(One could only hope, eh?)

Anyway the research I've been doing into using citrus fruits, is that the actual flavor/smell comes from using just the zest. It's the same with cooking with lime or lemon zests. The juice is less important than the outer skin. A lot of the recipes suggest using a potato peeler to take off just the rind, making sure NOT to take any of the white stuff under it (which has bitter oils.)

Take a look at some of the fruit beer recipes online. There's a lot of recipes for wheat beers with orange and coriander- I'm not a fan of wheats, that's why I want to do an orange ale. You should be able to find the right amount of orange for a 5 gal batch.



I'm also contemplating doing some with Lime as well, since Miller Chill was a popular summer bear around these parts last year...Again doing something with a fuller body and more flavor than Miller did.

I'd like to see the recipe you come up with.

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Old 01-03-2008, 12:56 AM   #3
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I'm really just thinking about a pale ale, or an IPA with the the zest from a couple oranges. Thanks for the tip on the bitter oils though.

I made a Xmas ale recently, with cloves, and I hated it. So I think I will skip the cloves.

I still need to find a pale ale extract kit that is good, first.

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Old 01-03-2008, 02:07 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chase
I'm really just thinking about a pale ale, or an IPA with the the zest from a couple oranges. Thanks for the tip on the bitter oils though.

I made a Xmas ale recently, with cloves, and I hated it. So I think I will skip the cloves.

I still need to find a pale ale extract kit that is good, first.
Yeah, cloves can be tricky and overwhelming. How much clove did you add, where in the boil and in what form?

I only want a hint of clove...and maybe ginger. I'd probably use one or two whole cloves in the last few minutes of boil..

Most recipes I've found call for a half ounce of orange peel in the last 15 minutes of boil.

If it wasn't orangy enough I'd probably add some more in the secondary.

Let me know what kit you choose.
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Old 01-03-2008, 03:27 AM   #5
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I used three whole cloves. I dropped them in w/ 30minutes left.

Maybe one clove with 5 minutes left would be better.

I think I may try adding the peels during the boil, and then adding some more in the 2º fermentor.

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Old 01-03-2008, 03:38 AM   #6
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Want orange? Use corriander seeds and run them through your mill. Add them in a hop bag in the last 10 mins of your boil or even at flameout if you use an IC.


This will give you all the orange you need. I'd not mess with actual oranges/

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Old 01-03-2008, 06:39 AM   #7
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for the citrus w/o bitter, try dryhopping. For a great grapefruit go with simcoe.

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Old 01-03-2008, 12:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chase
I used three whole cloves. I dropped them in w/ 30minutes left.

Maybe one clove with 5 minutes left would be better.

I think I may try adding the peels during the boil, and then adding some more in the 2º fermentor.

Have you chosen an ale kit yet?
I'm thinking of doing this beer this weekend as well.
I agree with you, I'd do the orange peel in the last 10-15 minutes in the boil and some more in the secondary.

Spyk'd talked about using Coriander instead of orange...I dunno, in wheat beers it's usually used in conjuction with orange not as a replacement for orange.

I cook with coriander all the time and never ever would say it has an orange flavor. And in a lot of ways brewing is the same as cooking, the same adjuncts/spices impart the same flavors whether it is in a wort, or let's say a curry.

I tried this beer on New Year's Eve.



Quote:
Alcohol: 5.2 % alc. / vol.
Appearance: Pale golden, bottle-conditioned.
Aroma: Light fruity aroma with citrus and coriander.
Taste: Pale, tart and refreshing. A delicious full and robust body with smooth, slightly tart citrus flavors of lemon and orange artfully balanced among a delicate spice profile of coriander and curacao. A wonderfully dry, champagne finish.
Serving Suggestions: Serve chilled, not cold. Enjoy with white meats, fish and shellfish, salads, fresh-cut vegetables, barbecue and spicy foods.
I didn't like it, I thought it was too dry and champange like for my tastes, plus it was brewed with bitter orange peel instead of sweet orange peel. And I thought the coriander was way too strong.

Bitter orange peel if you don't know is just that, the peel from a bitter orange, which is usually used in cooking for it's bitter flavor. Or in orange liquers...Here's a wiki on it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_orange

Personally that's not the taste I'm looking for in an orange ale. BUT I wonder if it would be a good substitute for hopping....hmm.
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Old 01-03-2008, 01:41 PM   #9
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I agree with you about the coriander. It would be a good complement to orange in some beers, but not a replacement.

I think I am going to do the Northerbrewer Extra Pale Ale extract kit, with orange. I've never used this kit before, but they say it is popular.

I'm waiting for a bunch of new stuff to arrive in order to brew this: immersion chiller, oxygenation system, extract kit.

I've been having a lot of trouble trying to isolate an off flavor I've consistently had. I think it may just be an attenuation problem. But this time, I'm making a starter, and oxygenating. So hopefully that will fix the problem. I'm still waiting for my first good beer.

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Old 01-04-2008, 05:47 PM   #10
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I reciently had a go at a two hearted clone myself after having it at a local brewfest. I had a talk with the Bells rep, and he claimed the recipe had only centennial hops. So I went with 4.5oz of centennial throughout the boil, and another .5oz dry hop. It did not have the citrus flavor I remember the Two Hearted having... almost like it could have used cascades along the line somewhere.

-J

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