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Old 06-15-2011, 12:56 AM   #11
Hex23
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I brewed a Domain DuPage clone based on both of the BYO clone recipes. I used the grain bill from the recipe above and a recommended yeast from the Sept 2010 BYO recipe. I just wanted to share some experiences.

My LHBS does not carry White Labs yeast, so I tried Wyeast 3711 (one of the alternatives in the Sept 2010 recipe). I fermented at an ambient of 62F and reached a whopping 88% attenuation - which I guess is not uncommon for 3711. However I will say that I think 3711 is probably an inappropriate yeast for this specific beer. I tasted at 3 weeks fermentation. It has all the typical phenolics and sourness of a German Hefe. Domain DuPage is much more malt focused. It has an earthyness, but definitely not spicy or very estery. Next, I think the yeast's attenuation is way too high. I mashed at 155 like the recipe called for and hit my mash temps closely. So I measured the FG of a real DDP today. It was 1.021 which makes sense given the body and residual sweetness. So if I plug that number and 5.9% ABV into an attenuation calculator, it look like one should be targeting an OG of 1.066 and a yeast with 67% attenuation.

I've never used WLP 550, but by the description I think it would be similar to Wy3711.

I think next time I brew this I will use a cleaner ale yeast or a lager yeast.

Anyone have any yeast suggestions for this beer?

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Old 06-19-2011, 11:06 PM   #12
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I just brewed this up today but subbed the hops with organic pilgrim and sapphire also used s33 yeast for the first time.Also didnt have melonoiden so i subbed crystal 60.
Ive seen contradictary info about its attenuation.ive seen excellent attenuation ,and low attenuation.Guess i will find out.

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Old 06-23-2011, 03:47 AM   #13
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Let us know how the attenuation turns out. Also include your mashing and ferm condition details. It's probable that the wide variation you're seeing people talk about is due to wort and ferm condition variation. I'd also be interested to hear whether that yeast produces many phenolics. I've seen accounts that claim it can make noticeable phenolics and others that don't mention that at all.

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Old 06-23-2011, 03:15 PM   #14
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Howdy,

I posted to this thread back in 2009 and I finally got around to brewing this.
I sent an email to the brewery asking about the BYO article and recipe, and my concerns over the wlp550 kicking out penolic flavors that I didn't notice in the commercial example. They responded quickly and stated the recipe is the same as they use and that was that.
I brewed the recipe as written, scaled up to a 12 gallon batch to be separated into three carboys of four gallons, each getting a different yeast. The yeasts were WLP550, WLP072 French Ale and WY3725 Bier De Garde. Single vial/pouch pitched direct. Fermented at 66* Doing this allows me to taste what each strain brings to the table. I also used a 15 minute mash that I've heard Two Brothers uses on their beers.
This was brewed on May 28. I'm not doing a secondary and will move this right to bottles (bottling stinks!) and cellared until fall.
Here are the tasting notes from when I took a gravity sample/taste..

As of 6/12/11....
WLP072- 8.4B/1.013 Smell- earthy, yeasty , savory, hint diacytal Taste- vineous, yeasy, mild spice and a bit hot.
WLP550- 10.2/1.024 Smell - Very spicy,typical Belgian strain smell, pink buble gum, yeasty. Taste - typical Belgian spicy flavor, mild Phenolic, more body and a hint of sweetness.
WY3725- 7.3/1.005 Smell - Earthy, Woody, yeasty , tart. Taste - Tart dryness, earthy, bit of spice, hot alcohol on tongue.

You can see the 3725 worked the hardest and finished the lowest. It was also the freshest of the three. The 550 has now slowed down and I'll take another reading soon.
When I bottle, I want to take a portion from all three and blend them together for a fouth different beer.

Sorry for the long winded post. I'll post more soon.

Cheers,
Bob

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Old 06-24-2011, 12:46 AM   #15
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Thanks for all the great info. What OG did you hit on that batch? I read in the Yeast book that phenolic flavors don't tend to mellow. I might taste some mild spiciness in the real DDP, but not much at all. I can't imagine how they avoid it at Two Brothers if they're using WLP 550. I think the fermentation conditions that favor it are warmth and I fermented at a somewhat low temp.

All I can say is that it's a good thing my wife likes beer with spicy phenolics. I wouldn't enjoy drinking 5 gallons of this on my own - it actually turned out to be a good beer (no major flaws per-se), but it's just not my style. I would like to brew this again once I figure out what yeast is reasonable. I've also read that this style beer is probably difficult to reproduce in a home setting because it is usually cask conditioned and lagered. Not sure if Two Brothers is doing that.

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Old 06-24-2011, 01:18 AM   #16
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Well its an ale,not a lager.They do use oak but usually emphasize it,I love the resistance.I wouldnt even hesistate to oak this frenchy if wanted.I havent had this beer in some time so im not shure what it tastes like now but i know i liked it enough after smuggeling one in a sixer of resistance once, i then bought a six of it,been a while but was a good somewhat differnet than the basic styles.
I have been getting pretty clean beers using a low temp with a variety of dry yeast.04 and munich wheat didnt get me much really. Im not expecting alot from 33 as ive not heard the greatest things about it, sounds like t58 or whatever the other dry one is is a better one, who knows without trying first i guess

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Old 06-24-2011, 01:57 AM   #17
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My OG was 1.067.
I don't get a whole lot of spice in the real deal. That's why I questioned using the 550. I also detect a musty, cellar, earthy note in both the taste and smell of Domaine. I hope that comes through in mine.


Cheers,
B

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Old 06-24-2011, 02:13 AM   #18
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That sounds about right for an OG. Seems like you might get the right taste out of your WLP072 or Wy3725 batches. But the FG's might make them drier and lighter body. BTW, what are those numbers you list before the gravities?

Maybe they originally started with WLP550 and it mutated? I did notice a fair bit of sediment in the bottle, so perhaps I'll attempt a harvesting.

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Old 06-26-2011, 02:24 PM   #19
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@Hex Those are Brix. I take my gravvities witha refractometer andconvert them to SG in Promash.

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Old 06-27-2011, 04:10 AM   #20
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I also live very close to the brewery and this is one of my favorite beers. A while back I brewed the BYO clone, and while the grain bill is close, the Belgian yeast is completely incorrect. You definitely need to use a Bier de Garde yeast for this beer. A fellow member (Joe Dragon) and I worked on a better clone, and his recipe is very close, if not better than the original. Hope he doesn't mind me posting his 10gal recipe here (which I scaled down to 5gal) but it's damn good. This beer needs aging (I think around 6 months it was at its best.)

Domaine DuKane
Biere de Garde


Type: All Grain
Date: 7/16/2010
Batch Size: 10.00 gal
Brewer: Joe Dragon
Boil Size: 12.13 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Brew Pot (12.5 gal) and Igloo Cooler (10 Gal)
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
14.50 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 53.70 %
6.00 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 22.22 %
4.00 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 14.81 %
1.50 lb Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 5.56 %
0.50 lb Caramunich Malt (48.0 SRM) Grain 1.85 %
0.50 lb Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 1.85 %
1.00 oz Northern Brewer [8.90 %] (60 min) Hops 14.1 IBU
1.00 oz Mt. Hood [6.00 %] (17 min) Hops 5.2 IBU
1.00 oz Mt. Hood [6.00 %] (5 min) Hops 1.9 IBU
0.50 oz Polyclar (Secondary 1.0 days) Misc
1.00 tsp Gelatin (Secondary 5.0 hours) Misc
2.00 tbsp PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
20.00 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs White Labs (White Labs #072) [Starter 50 ml] Yeast-Ale



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.068 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.065 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.016 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.016 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.81 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 7.84 %
Bitterness: 21.2 IBU Calories: 287 cal/pint
Est Color: 8.3 SRM Color: Color


Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out Total Grain Weight: 27.00 lb
Sparge Water: 8.17 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F TunTemperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.4 PH

Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out Step Time Name Description Step Temp
90 min Mash In Add 7.45 gal of water at 171.1 F 154.0 F



Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).
Carbonation and Storage

Carbonation Type: Kegged (Forced CO2) Volumes of CO2: 2.4
Pressure/Weight: 21.6 PSI Carbonation Used: -
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 60.0 F Age for: 28.0 days
Storage Temperature: 52.0 F

Notes


Created with BeerSmith

Quick Edit - I ended up using Wyeast-3725 instead of the White Labs French Ale in my version.. turned out great.

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