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Old 11-26-2012, 12:33 AM   #1
bfinleyui
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Default Toning down the coffee in a stout?

I'm not a big coffee fan, but I want to learn how to brew a stout that I'll enjoy.

Talked with the guy at the local craft beer store, and he pointed me toward a Moo Joos Oatmeal Milk Stout, but even that gave me a whole lot more coffee, almost no sweetness, and the body didn't seem any thicker than the normal whites/wheats/hefes that I drink.

I want to find a way to like stouts, so when someone wants something heavier, I have a recipe around I can go to. Which part of a stout recipe is it that gives that coffee flavor? Most I've seen don't explicity say "Coffee" as an ingredient. Assuming it's the dark malt (i do extract).

So would the way to rectify that would be to take a cream/milk/watney's kit, ease up on the dark, substitute with some light extract, and up the lactose to give a bit more sweetness? maybe throw some milk chocolate somewhere in secondary?

I'm new, and it would be sort of disheartening to go through the ~2 months to properly ferment and condition a stout, only to find it's still full of coffee.

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Old 11-26-2012, 12:37 AM   #2
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Usually its the roasted barley and chocolate malts that give most of the coffee flavors. Reduce the percentage of both and you'll reduce the coffee flavor. Post up the recipe you're looking at so we can adjust it for you.

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Old 11-26-2012, 12:46 AM   #3
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I haven't picked out a particular recipe yet, just trying to keep the coffee out.

For argument's sake, let's say I was doing this one, taken from this thread

Recipe Type: Extract
Yeast: Windsor
Yeast Starter: None
Additional Yeast or Yeast Starter: None
Batch Size (Gallons): 5
Original Gravity: 1.052
Final Gravity: 1.024
IBU: ~17
Boiling Time (Minutes): 60
Color: ~35 SRM
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 11 @ 70
Tasting Notes: Nearly opaque with a creamy tan head. Subtly sweet, toasted malts come through, crisp

M.O. Stout (Milk Oatmeal Stout)

Light Dry Malt Extract – 4.5 lbs
Black Patent – 8 oz
Chocolate Malt – 12 oz
CARAPILS – 8 oz
Lactose – 1 lb
Oats, Flaked – 1 lb
Fuggle Pellet Hops – 1 oz (60 min)
Fuggle Pellet Hops - 1 oz (5 min)
Windsor Yeast
Irish Moss - 1 tsp

Steep oats for 15 minutes at 115 F.
Bring temp up to 155.
Steep grains and oats for 45 minutes.
Remove from heat.
Add malt extract.
Bring to boil.
Add bittering hops with 60 minutes remaining.
Add 1 tsp Irish Moss and 1 lb lactose at with 15 min remaining.
Add aroma hops with 5 minutes remaining.

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Old 11-26-2012, 12:58 AM   #4
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Reduce the chocolate malt to 3oz and replace the black patent with the debittered version. You can also add .5# of pale chocolate to the recipe to get the color into the sweet stout range.

Another option for you would be to make a brown ale instead of a stout. Or even a porter instead of a stout. Other than Guiness, I have yet to find a stout I can drink. The majority use too much black malt, leaving it with a grainy bitterness I simply cannot enjoy/drink.

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On Tap: Caramel Ale, Mocha Porter II, MO SMaSH IPA
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Fermenting
K1:
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:05 AM   #5
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Excellent, I'll give that a shot, probably put it into beersmith to bring it down to a 2.5 gallon batch, just in case it still turns out kinda meh.

Also very interested in your Caramel Cream Ale that's in your recipe dropdown. Going to try and figure out how to convert that to extract, maybe toss a bit of vanilla in there. Was going to just take a brewer's best cream ale kit and add vanilla myself, but would be interesting to do it on my own.

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Bottled: Cinnamon Apple Cider, Two Hearted Clone, FW Double Jack Clone
Kegged: Milk Chocolate Stout/Porter Partigyle, Graff
Conditioning: Russian Imperial Stout
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:09 AM   #6
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Everyone that tries my caramel cream ale really likes it. I've brewed it twice so far and have the second keg (from the second batch) in the brew fridge now. It's at least half gone already. I'll probably brew it again early next year. Have a few other brews on deck in front of it.

My English Brown Ale (English Brunette) is also a real pleaser. Been enjoying that one the past few nights. Only problem is, two pints is about all I can drink in a night (at 6.2-6.6%). I want to drink more, but the stairs (to get to the brew fridge in the kitchen) are not advisable after the second one.

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On Tap: Caramel Ale, Mocha Porter II, MO SMaSH IPA
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Fermenting
K1:
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:35 AM   #7
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Not entirely sure how to convert that from AG to extract. Not all of the options for that recipe are available in the beersmith, it appears. If you happen to have some free time and are feeling generous, you could post an extract version of that for me to try out... :-P

Thanks for the help, I'll post an update if I get around to the stout (which is turning into more of a porter, I guess, with the debittered, lack of chocolate, and extra lactose)

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Primary: House Pale Ale
Bottled: Cinnamon Apple Cider, Two Hearted Clone, FW Double Jack Clone
Kegged: Milk Chocolate Stout/Porter Partigyle, Graff
Conditioning: Russian Imperial Stout
On Deck: DIPA w/Heady Topper Yeast
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:49 AM   #8
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The British Crystal malts are from Farmhouse Brewing Supply, the pale chocolate and kiln coffee were purchased from Rebel Brewer. I believe others carry them now. You can use standard Maris Otter as the base malt (from within BeerSmith 2.x). The oak step is optional. You'll want to get the IBU's to match, though, so adjust the hop amounts (keep the hop type) accordingly. Also, use the yest strain listed, since that's important too. Fermenting temperature is the temperature of the fermenting beer, not the ambient air temp where it's sitting.

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Hopping Tango Brewery

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On Tap: Caramel Ale, Mocha Porter II, MO SMaSH IPA
Waiting/Carbonating: 12.5% Wee Honey II, 8.9% Old Ale, English Brown Ale, Lickah ESB, Mocha Porter II
Fermenting
K1:
K2: Epic mead
K3: TripSix
On Deck: Caramel Ale
Aging:mead
Mead [bottled]:Oaked Wildflower Traditional, Mocha Madness, Blackberry Melomel, maple wine
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