Sweet Raspberry Belgian "Lambic"

Indiana Red · 06-14-2007, 10:01 PM

OK, I posted similarly a long time ago but I think I am realy going todo it this time.
I would call myself a moderately experianced AG HBer but haven't done anything this wierd before.
My goal is something similar to the Lindemanns Framboise. Yes I know purists will scoff but it is delicious for what it is.
I am preparred to use fresh raspberries as they are about in season. guessing 5-10lbs for each of the 3G batches I want to do.
I have decided that heat pasteurizing is how I can stop fermentating at a given (final) gravity. 1.035ish. I have tested and found that 6 bottles at a time in a 170F kettle will get up to 160 in 11 min.
My question(s) revolve around what base ale recipe i should use as my plan is to add the raspberry juice to secondary and bottle very soon after.
Rough off--the cuff numbers: 2Gal Light Belgian ale SG 1.04 FG1.005 add 1G of raspberry juice/puree at aprox 1.06 and bottle/pasteurize when still at 1.035ish.
Just a guess based on my limited experiance and how sweet I remember the Lindemans tasting (I guess I could buy one and check it's grav) and that the sweetness of most juices are around 050-060.
Thoughts? Advice?
Thanks.

landhoney · 06-15-2007, 12:07 AM

I guess you're kegging this right? Otherwise if you kill the yeast the bottle won't carb' right? I've been wondering if I could sweeten up a fruit beer with lactose. My raspberry lambic, at least in my mind, is turning out somewhere between Lindemanns and a 'true' lambic, but not sweet - don't want it sweet. It has, as of now ~5# of raspberries per gallon - and I'm continually adding more. The Roeselare Blend( brett, lactobaccilus) is providing a great sourness so far, and with the intense raspberry flavor it is coming along nicely - again to my taste. I like your idea, seems good - kill the yeast with residual sugar and voila you've got sweet beer. Its going to take a lot of raspberry to get to the Lindemanns level. I think Lind' has a little 'fake' raspberry taste too, just a little, but it may be the sweetness. Maybe real fruit and a quality extract?

Indiana Red · 06-15-2007, 12:42 AM

actually I want to bottle. That was my description of how I figure out the time to temp for pasteurizing. ARGH! I forgot about carbonation. I think I will force carb in the keg and bottle from there. Or I supose I could bottle and then guess on conditioning time and open one every few days untill it was about right and pasteurize them then.

landhoney · 06-15-2007, 12:50 AM

Heating in the bottle? Capped? Any precident for that, won't the caps blow off from the expansion caused by heating?

**jezter6** · 06-15-2007, 01:43 AM

I used a Saison as my base for this, and just added the rapberries (smooshed, but not mashed hard) into the secondary. I did 6.5# for a 3.5 gallon batch.

I accidentally over hopped (I was using Sorachi Ace hops in my saison - an interesting mix, but with fruit it was too powerful) mine, so be sure to use very low hopping. Mine ended up around 1.019 at bottling time. Raspberry is very pronounced, but not overly sour. You can add acidulated malt, or find a yeast strain that will do it, depending on how long you really want to wait for this 'lambic.'

Indiana Red · 06-15-2007, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by landhoney

Heating in the bottle? Capped? Any precident for that, won't the caps blow off from the expansion caused by heating?

Well, here is my thought on that. Air expands a lot when heated. Liquids dont....much. With only 1/2oz or so of head space and only 160F for a few minutes, I think I will be good. My timed tests for this pasteurization method was with the caps off however. I will do a few sets , capped for rehersal as well though.

landhoney · 06-15-2007, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indiana Red

Well, here is my thought on that. Air expands a lot when heated. Liquids dont....much. With only 1/2oz or so of head space and only 160F for a few minutes, I think I will be good. My timed tests for this pasteurization method was with the caps off however. I will do a few sets , capped for rehersal as well though.

HOLY CRAP! Be careful. Hate to loose a homebrewer. How about lactose - too much 'mouthfeel' for the style. I'm not sure how a large amount would affect the mouthfeel and how much you'd need to get the desired sweetness - Lind's very sweet as you know. BTW, I used a belgian witbier(wheat) for my grainbill for my lambic. And I think you're going to need the high end of your raspberry poundage estimate to get the flavor right. How about fresh fruit and extract - don't you think it had a little 'fakey' raspberry taste?

Drunkensatyr · 06-15-2007, 08:34 PM

Out of the blue here, but I would try running with some Crystal 10 to add Unfermentable sugar to the mix.

landhoney · 06-18-2007, 08:53 PM

So I guess Indiana died.

A moment of silence please. On a serious note I'm curious if this worked? Anybody else reading ever try this? I imagine the head space is not the only concern, there's dissolved CO2 heating up as well. BOOM!

Indiana Red · 06-21-2007, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by landhoney

So I guess Indiana died.

A moment of silence please. On a serious note I'm curious if this worked? Anybody else reading ever try this? I imagine the head space is not the only concern, there's dissolved CO2 heating up as well. BOOM!

Roumors of my death have been greatly exagerated....

I havent tried the capped heat pasturize method...yet. Were only talking 160F and it only takes about 10 min to get up there...I have to try. Behind a blast shield maybe though.
I'll video it maybe with some final last words, for posterity.

I did find some commercial sources for Raspberries. They come in 28# pails of puree'. Perfect Im thinking.
I'll let you know.