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Old 02-01-2013, 12:08 PM   #51
legasus233
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I emailed Todd Haug from Surly asking for help on this because mine wound up with a "hot" off flavor. My problem was two fold, I fermented too high especially during high krausen (73-75). Also, I used corn sugar. Todd indicated they ferment Abrasive at 66 degrees and also said using brewers crystals is essential to produce the right flavor. Be sure to use Golden Naked Oats, not flaked oats.

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Old 02-01-2013, 04:34 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by legasus233 View Post
I emailed Todd Haug from Surly asking for help on this because mine wound up with a "hot" off flavor. My problem was two fold, I fermented too high especially during high krausen (73-75). Also, I used corn sugar. Todd indicated they ferment Abrasive at 66 degrees and also said using brewers crystals is essential to produce the right flavor. Be sure to use Golden Naked Oats, not flaked oats.
Thanks for the intel. Here's a bit on brewer's crystals in case any folks haven't heard of them:

"Granulated corn syrup solids with dextrose mostly converted to maltose, ~56%. This sugar mimics the fermentable/unfermentable ratio of sugars of barley malt wort. A good gravity booster when additional alcohol and dextrines are desired but additional malt flavor, aroma and color are not.

So when I did the recipe I knew of the BC but couldn't find any. I personally don't think that if they're using less than 5, maybe 10 percent, you won't taste it. Perhaps a reasonable substitute would be a dextrose/malodextrine combo?

I think the key to this recipe is the % of Golden Naked Oats in the recipe. When I crack one today I should be able to tell if my initial percentage was too high or too low, GNO are very unique in taste.
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Old 02-01-2013, 05:07 PM   #53
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Then, Brewers Crystals (dextrose converted 56% of the way to maltose) seem like they would just benefit the beer more since we want the yeast to get busy on maltose and maltriose, not so much glucose, sucrose, and fructose.

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I think the key to this recipe is the % of Golden Naked Oats in the recipe.
Probably only 3-4% I'm assuming. Or perhaps plain Fawcett Oat Malt.
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Old 02-01-2013, 06:45 PM   #54
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I sent Todd the all grain recipe from here posted by theveganbrewer after he responded to my initial email. I basically asked him if we were on the right track and he hasn't yet responded. Not sure if that is because he is too busy or that the recipe is so close that he doesn't want to tip his hand

Also, I know that based on my multiple tours of the brewery, Surly relies on 0 minute additions for Furious and Abrasive (in this case Citra) and centrifuge to remove their hops, yeast, etc. This addition really accentuates the unreal hop flavor and aroma that is immediately noticeable. This is one thing for the homebrew version I did that was really missing. The smells and flavors were on and there, just not to nearly the same level as the real thing. There is actually a video on youtube that I have linked. I think this process can't be replicated by homebrewers and will in my opinion make it difficult to come up with an identical clone. Based on the last tour I was on, I was led to believe this centrifuge process really puts the hop flavor and aroma over the top. Brew on friends, Cheers!

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Old 02-01-2013, 07:23 PM   #55
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Cool video. I wonder what he means when he said they get better aroma when using the centrifuge. I have read some research that says it gives better aroma per unit of hops, giving breweries the ability to use less hops and get the same or more out of them. I think that is what he's getting at, since he goes on later to talk about how the ingredients are all becoming more expensive, and this centrifuge is a way to get the same hop flavor while using less hops.

I think homebrewers can do a few things to get killer aroma and they all happen after the burner gets turned off. First, let the whirlpool hops steep, don't be afraid of letting the beer sit for a while before chilling. Second, think that everything that touches your beer after the burner gets turned off is only out to remove your precious hop aroma. Try to keep the beer out of contact with as much as possible. That also means not dryhopping when the yeast is still in suspension. Third, dryhop warm, 65 degrees or better, for optimal flavor extraction. Lastly, rouse the hops during the dryhop and keep them moving through the beer. You will extract significantly more aroma this way. I prefer dryhopping in a warm keg and letting it sit at room temperature while dryhopping and either shooting a few shots of CO2 through the liquid out tube to rouse the hops or if they're in a weighted bag, rolling the keg gently back and forth every few hours to move it around.

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Old 02-01-2013, 09:26 PM   #56
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Some awesome info in this here thread! I am looking forward to what Tom has to say in the email back.

I am gonna hit my brew shop here in a few, see what they have and pick up some goodies.

I dont have any yeast starter stuff, so that may be a good idea

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Old 02-01-2013, 10:17 PM   #57
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The question is, who's going to buy a centrifuge and test this out??

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Old 02-01-2013, 10:36 PM   #58
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Tried to find my local shop, Aparrently they closed! So that's gone poorly

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Old 02-01-2013, 11:18 PM   #59
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Tried to find my local shop, Aparrently they closed! So that's gone poorly
Not a good start, hang in there.
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Old 02-02-2013, 01:01 AM   #60
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Finally tasted the real thing tonight! I'd say after the taste and reading bobbrews, I'd agree, the naked oats need to come down, probably to 10 ounces, or maybe even 8. Mine was quite a bit nuttier than the real thing. As far as hops, you can get this aroma with the recipe, just focus on whirlpool and dryhop warm.

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