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Old 12-16-2010, 03:42 AM   #1
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Default Stout variant recipe feedback needed

I'm basing this recipe on a few ales/stouts... Taking clues from sweet/cream stout, and a chocolate stout (not using oatmeal in it)... I'm looking to have a thick, creamy head without using nitrogen (or a corny)...

5 gallon batch size
60 minute total boil time
Specialty grains will steep for 15-20 minutes (or that's my thoughts so far).

3 pounds Dark DME
6.6 pounds Dark LME (2 cans)
8 oz. Caramel/Crystal Malt 60L
6 oz. Roasted Barley
4 oz. Chocolate Malt
3 oz. Cara-Pils <-- on the fence with this
1 oz. Cascade hops (7.4% AA) 45 minute boil
1 oz. Fuggles hops (4.8% AA) 10 minute boil
1 pkg. Wyeast #1084 Irish Ale (yeast cake from porter fermenting now)
4 oz. ground cacao nibs. Thinking of using one or two ounces during boil, then the balance post secondary fermentation.

Thinking of (maybe) using some honey in it (I'm a bit of a honey nut)... Less than 2 pounds, if I use any at all.

Target is a solid stout with chocolate and coffee notes. Hoping that I can get a good chocolate flavor as the recipe stands, or without too much additional modification. I have four cans of Dark LME on hand, originally slated for an Imperial Stout. I'm not ready for the Imperial Stout variant, so I'm thinking this would be done sooner (with all that I've changed in the Imperial, it would be 3-4 months, or longer before ready to bottle). Looking for enough kick in it that you know you're drinking a solid brew.

Plan to prime to CO2 volume of 2.2...

Thoughts, comments, opinions, feedback?? Also thinking of maybe trying a partial mash with this brew... Suggestions on that would also be appreciated.

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Old 12-16-2010, 06:13 AM   #2
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Sounds pretty good to me. I've never used cocoa nibs. But everything else sounds about right.

My basic Sweet Stout recipe (I have made a lot of variations) but the original is:

10 Lb LME

Steeping grains:

.5 Roasted barley (Rarely use that much)
.25 Chocolate Malt (I like to up this a bit)
.25 Black Patent
.75 British Crystal

Hops: NorthDown (6.1%) at 60 Min.

I usually use Fuggle, Northern Brewer or a similar hop.

Usually use English ale yeast (Done, with Safe-05, 04, and Notty to name a few)

Just keep in mind it tends to have an explosive fermentation. Make sure you have a blow off tub or use anti-foam drops from LHBS. Get the wort to the cooler end of the yeast range before pitching.

I usually do this with 11-12 lb of LME. The more unfermented residual sugars you have the sweeter the beer.

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Old 12-16-2010, 06:26 AM   #3
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Beer Smith is telling me that the FG (of how I posted the recipe) should be 1.021... Would that be high enough to let it retain a good level of sweetness?

I've also recently started going through the thread about the Caramel Cream Ale, so I'm thinking of trying a stout version of that flavor profile.

Using the yeast cake from the current brew (using the Wyeast 1084) is in the plan. Since that brew started like a rocket, I'll use the blow-off tube for the first day or two... It calmed down during the second day in primary, by the third I was able to install a regular airlock... I use a 6 gallon PET carboy as my primary... The current brew in it is the second one to go through it. The first (using the Wyeast 1056 American Ale) wasn't even close to as violent/foamy... Leave it to the Irish...

Looking to steep the grains for about 45 minutes at 150-165F on the altered recipe... Might start doing that more (need to check with some others to make sure it's not a bad idea before doing it)...

Right now, I'm extract brewing. I hope to start a new job soon, where I'll have the income to get more brewing gear and be able to go first to PM then [eventually] to AG brewing... Oh, and I currently have 4 cans of Dark LME on hand that I can use for this... Should I go with three instead of two?

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Old 12-16-2010, 07:14 AM   #4
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[quote]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golddiggie View Post
Beer Smith is telling me that the FG (of how I posted the recipe) should be 1.021... Would that be high enough to let it retain a good level of sweetness?
Yup, The original recipe had a OG range of 1.064-1.068 and FG 1.022-1.028

Most stouts out there are dry. I like a sweet one and don't like to use lactose (Intolerant).

Quote:
I've also recently started going through the thread about the Caramel Cream Ale, so I'm thinking of trying a stout version of that flavor profile.
Too tired to look it up

Quote:
Using the yeast cake from the current brew (using the Wyeast 1084) is in the plan. Since that brew started like a rocket, I'll use the blow-off tube for the first day or two... It calmed down during the second day in primary, by the third I was able to install a regular airlock... I use a 6 gallon PET carboy as my primary... The current brew in it is the second one to go through it. The first (using the Wyeast 1056 American Ale) wasn't even close to as violent/foamy... Leave it to the Irish...
Just wanted you to be aware. This is the only beer that can go a little crazy on me (Okay, my Hefe's too). First time I made this one the airlock blew off and made a heck of a mess SWMBO was not happy. I just make sure I watch it the first day or two. then switch back to airlock. I like to leave it in the primary for at least 3 weeks and then don't bother with secondary.

Quote:
Looking to steep the grains for about 45 minutes at 150-165F on the altered recipe... Might start doing that more (need to check with some others to make sure it's not a bad idea before doing it)...
Well, basically that's pretty close to PM The warmer end of the temp range will give you more unfermentable sugars = more residual sweetness. I'll sometimes PM 2 lb of 2 row. Might drop 1 lb of extract. If you want to be true to the recipe then drop like 1.4 lb LME if thinking 70% eff.

Quote:
Right now, I'm extract brewing. I hope to start a new job soon, where I'll have the income to get more brewing gear and be able to go first to PM then [eventually] to AG brewing... Oh, and I currently have 4 cans of Dark LME on hand that I can use for this... Should I go with three instead of two?
I've been mainly an extract brewer since the mid 80's (Frankie says Relax) I PM and will do AG with my brew club on occasion. I think PM and AG often adds a little something, but not enough form me to switch completely. I do all my brewing in the Kitchen after dinner has been cooked

If I was AG. I'd have a great system, but would have to make payments while paying child support and alimony Cheaper to keep her (And I do love her).

Remember: Going to AG to save money is like buying a Harley to save on gas (That argument worked by the way, 02 Road King)
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Old 12-16-2010, 03:25 PM   #5
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Thinking of this for malt/grain bill now...

2 pounds Dark DME
6.6 pounds (2 cans) of Dark LME <-- already have on hand
1 pound Caramel/Crystal Malt 60L
4 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine
4 oz Chocolate Malt
2 oz Roasted Barley

60 minute soak/steep for the grains then sparge them into my 8 quart pot/Dutch Oven (or a 16-20 quart pot if I can get one for a good rate), for 15-20 minutes (will get as much water in there as I can, probably about 1-1/2 gallons). The largest pot I have is a 16 quart. I'll have to see if the LHBS has any 16-20 quart pots at a decent rate that I can pick up... I'm thinking that it wouldn't be too difficult to later on convert one of those into a mash tun, when I go more grain/all grain... Looks like the 16 quarts are out of stock (at least online)... Will see if I can source one at a good rate and then just get that.

Without factoring in the longer steep time on the grains, B.S. is putting my OG at 1.073, and FG at 1.019... I did add one pound of honey to the recipe... I'm thinking of using my remote probe thermometer to monitor the temperature inside the pots while they cook. I'll also pick up a nylon mesh grain bag for this brew. Or would the typical muslin bag (large enough of course) be ok for it?

How about if I did 1-1/2 pounds of the Caramel Malt? I'm going to read (again) the thread about going partial mash/grain brewing to make sure I have a better handle on what I'll be doing with this.

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Old 12-16-2010, 03:40 PM   #6
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That's not very much roasted barley for a stout. You've got a pound of crystal malt, which is plenty, so you can ditch the carapils. If you want more mouthfeel, use flaked barley instead of carapils.

I'd skip the honey, which ferments out completely and leaves a thinner, drier end product.

With that recipe, you aren't mashing, you're steeping. All the grains can go into a big grain bag and steeped for 20 minutes or so at 150-160.

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Old 12-16-2010, 03:41 PM   #7
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I just got this month's BYO (the Jan-Feb issue) and it's got a ton of information about stouts! It be worth picking up if you don't have a subscription already.

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Old 12-16-2010, 04:18 PM   #8
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I'll see if they have it at the LHBS (kind of doubt Barnes and Noble would carry it, but I'll check there too)...

Thinking I'll get a 5-7 gallon pot soon, to make things easier on myself. The 16 quart tends to get a little tight on me (for more than just brewing)...

I do have a grain bag that I picked up with 4 oz Dark Crystal, 4 oz Roasted Barley, and 8 oz Chocolate Malt in it... If I used those, in this recipe (substitute the Roasted Barley and Chocolate in the recipe, add the Dark Crystal) do you think that would be good? Do you think 4-6 ounces of Flaked Barley would be good in this? Also, I have 4 cans (3.3 pounds each) of Dark LME on hand... If I used three of those and used just one pound of Dark DME, how would that be? I'd still be looking to keep the pound of 60L Crystal Malt in this...

Thinking a 20-30 minute grain steep time... Would this be better with a 60 minute boil, or a 90 minute boil total?

I typically let the fermenting wort go 1-2 weeks in primary (when the airlock slows to more than 2 minutes between movements, I rack to secondary), another 1-2 weeks in secondary, before bottling. I'm thinking that I'll do that for this brew, but rack onto flavor elements once primary is finished. I'm a bit cautious about the cacao nibs, which is why I'm thinking of using 2oz at a time (course grind)... Once that's on target, I'll rack onto a vanilla bean and let it age a while. I'm planning on taste testing that every day (or two at the outside) to make sure it gets where I want it to. I'm sure some of these will be hanging around in bottles for a while, so it will be interesting to see how they are in X months...

I'm also thinking of priming this batch with DME with a vanilla bean added to the pot... Maybe I'll retrieve one of the beans from secondary/tertiary and cook it with the DME to extract some more flavor... Also thinking of soaking the vanilla bean in some brandy before splitting/scraping it (or perhaps after) and adding all of that to after secondary seems to be completed...

I'd like to get this 'nailed down' before end of day tomorrow, so that I can get what I need on Saturday for brewing on Sunday...

I've read through some of the winter warmer brews on BYO's site... Some include about 13 oz of maple syrup... Interesting... Don't think that would be of any benefit to the flavor profile I'm going for though...

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Old 12-16-2010, 04:32 PM   #9
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I don't understand the recipe at all. You say 4 ounces of crystal, but then a pound of crystal 60l, etc.

Could you post the recipe once more, with the final plan? I'm having trouble understanding.

A 60 minute boil is fine for most recipes, and especially extract recipes, so that's perfect. Steeping time doesn't have anything to do with boil time- steeping is like making tea. Once you get the good stuff out, in 20 minutes or so, remove the grains.

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Old 12-16-2010, 04:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
I don't understand the recipe at all. You say 4 ounces of crystal, but then a pound of crystal 60l, etc.
4 ounces of DARK Crystal (like above 120L) is in a grain bag that I picked up for an Imperial Stout I've been thinking of making... It also includes the Chocolate Malt (8oz) and Roasted Barley (4oz)...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
Could you post the recipe once more, with the final plan? I'm having trouble understanding.
As the recipe stands now...

20-30 minute grain steep time at 150-160F
60 minute total boil time

1 pound Dark DME
9.9 pounds (3 cans) Dark LME <-- have 4 cans on hand, so can go up or down on this
1 pound Crystal Malt- 60L
4 ounces Flaked Barley
4 ounces Roasted Barley
1 ounce Cascade hops (pellets) 7.4% AA - 45 minute boil <-- already have
1 ounce Fuggles hops (pellets) 4.8% AA 10 minute boil
1 ounce Tettnang hops 0 minute boil (added after flame off and shifted to a cold burner).
Yeast cake from porter in primary now, made from Wyeast #1084 Irish Ale (can pick up a new packet if that would be best).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
A 60 minute boil is fine for most recipes, and especially extract recipes, so that's perfect. Steeping time doesn't have anything to do with boil time- steeping is like making tea. Once you get the good stuff out, in 20 minutes or so, remove the grains.
This will be my fourth home brew so far...

--update--
Also thinking of adding 1-2 ounces of course ground cacao nibs during the last 10-15 minutes of the boil (between when I add the Irish moss and before I add the Fuggles hops). If I add the nibs, I'll probably use the balance of the 4 ounce package during secondary fermentation, or post secondary. Also planning on racking over one or two vanilla beans (split, scraped and possibly soaked in either bourbon or brandy, with the entire thing added at the same time). Planning on retrieving one (or both) vanilla beans for use when cooking up the priming solution (thinking of using DME for this one). Maybe a couple of cacao nibs too (reserved from before)...

Not sure how long this will be in process, total, since there will be the variable of flavor extraction during secondary and tertiary rackings.
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