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Old 10-08-2012, 09:17 PM   #481
ultrablue22
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Hey Everybody,

What an awesome thread.

I've been following up on this every couple of days for the past month because I was trying to put together a nice PM "Pumking Clone" recipe. And as somebody mentioned before on here, this reads like a frickin' mystery novel.

I started off assembling my recipe on beer calculus a few weeks ago (based on the page 20 recipe) and kept tweaking it as new information was revealed (eg. the Graham Cracker Extract leaving a metallic taste, the alcohol soaked vanilla beans looking funky, the vanilla butter and nut extract being used instead). After I felt like I had enough of a handle on what was going on, I finally decided to buy the necessary materials and brew.

Here is what I went with:

http://hopville.com/recipe/1651534


LB OZ
45% 7 0 Briess DME Golden Light boiled
26% 4 0 Pumpkin, cooked mash
6% 1 0 Victory Malt mash
6% 1 0 Pale Malt, 6 Row, US mash
6% 1 0 Crystal 60L mash
5% 0 12 Dememera Sugar boiled
2% 0 4 Brown Sugar, Light boiled
2% 0 4 Gambrinus Honey Malt mash
2% 0 4 Rice Hulls mash

60 min .5 Magnum ~ pellet 14.0
20 min 0.2 Sterling ~ pellet 6.3

British Ale (WLP005)

boil 10 min 1 tbsp Irish Moss
boil 5 min 1 tsp Allspice
boil 5 min 3 ea Cinnamon Sticks
boil 5 min 1 tsp Cloves
boil 5 min 1 tsp Ginger, ground
boil 5 min 1 tsp Nutmeg
bottling 1 days 1 tsp Pumpkin Pie Spice
bottling 1 days ½ tsp Vanilla Extract

Some notes about my brew day:

I mashed everything in a Coleman cooler for about 1 hour. The mash was a bit soupy because I had to keep adding hot water. It was around 146-150 (I WANTED it to be around 155 though). I "ghetto sparged" with 3 gallons of 170 degree water through a pasta strainer that I bought at Bed Bath and Beyond. Say what you want though, my efficiency was at 65% (according to beer calculus). The pumpkin really does slow things down though, took me about 40 minutes when it usually takes me about 10 minutes to "ghetto sparge".

The boil went as planned except for the last 10 minutes when my girlfriend and I realized we forgot to add the DME and sugars. So we frantically added it all just in time to toss in the plethora of spices at the 5 minute mark. I originally had .5 teaspoons for each ingredient amount, but my girlfriend prepared the spice mixture and took the liberty of doubling everything since she didn't think half a teaspoon was enough.

We racked the beer over after chilling it with my wort chiller. I must say, it smelled ABSOLUTELY DIVINE. People kept commenting on here about a lot of the spice flavors dropping out while fermentation goes on, so maybe I'll be on to something with the extra .5 teaspoon for each.

I asked the guys at my LHBS about a yeast and they said WLP005 would probably get me what I wanted. Here's to putting my faith in their hands. I made a 24-hour starter for this beer since it's going to be around 8% ABV.

Also, I added the Honey Malt because I've always wanted to use it and my LHBS is always out of it. I saw it when I was purchasing everything and decided "why the hell not?". Honey on my pumpkin pie sounds terrific.

I plan on racking this to a secondary container next week. I also plan on doing some final adjustments at bottling time with Mckormick's Pumpkin Spice and Vanilla Butter and Nut extract.

I had Pumking a couple days ago and there is something very distinct about that aroma. It really does smell like graham crackers and I don't think anything you do in the mash or boil is going to give you that. I'm almost positive it's some strange extract added during the bottling process (I know this has pretty much been established on here, just wanted to confirm it).

Although this may not necessarily be a clone since I decided to use Honey Malt, i'll keep you guys updated with how it goes. Even if this doesn't turn out being a clone, the wort smelled fantastic. I'm almost willing to say it was worth putting this all together just to smell that wort. It smelled like 10 pumpkin pies were liquefied and put into my brew bucket.

Looking back, the ONLY regret I have so far with this batch (besides mashing so low) is using straight tap water to top off my bucket. I was at like 4.8 gallons of wort and brought it up to 5.2 without boiling the water. They use chloramine to clean my water, which supposedly can give a weird medicinal taste.

Any feedback from you guys would be appreciated. I started brewing in January and I've been absolutely hooked. This is Batch 13 for me.

And THANK YOU ALL for contributing to this thread. It's been a great read!

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Old 10-08-2012, 09:59 PM   #482
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Ultrablue, great first post! If you want a subtly spiced beer, you'll regret all those spices. I used 2 tsp TOTAL (pumpkin pie mix) compared to your 4-5 tsp, and IMHO mine is over-spiced. And Pumking has no cinnamon, as some have noted. As a point of reference, I've tried 4-5 pumpkin beers and my spice levels were comparable, but my new favorite pumpkin beer is Dogfish Head, which has much less spice than mine. So you'll be out at the far extreme on spices.

Good luck finding Vanilla Butter and Nut extract; I can't get it in Chicagoland.

Hope that helps.

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Old 10-09-2012, 12:17 AM   #483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedYellow View Post
Ultrablue, great first post! If you want a subtly spiced beer, you'll regret all those spices. I used 2 tsp TOTAL (pumpkin pie mix) compared to your 4-5 tsp, and IMHO mine is over-spiced. And Pumking has no cinnamon, as some have noted. As a point of reference, I've tried 4-5 pumpkin beers and my spice levels were comparable, but my new favorite pumpkin beer is Dogfish Head, which has much less spice than mine. So you'll be out at the far extreme on spices.

Good luck finding Vanilla Butter and Nut extract; I can't get it in Chicagoland.

Hope that helps.
I have another regret then: letting my girlfriend prepare the spices. :P

I remember reading about there not being cinnamon, but when I was putting the spice list together I took a whiff of some in my cabinet and thought, "THAT NEEDS TO BE IN MY BEER". I guess it's easy for me to get over excited? Good thing there wasn't any bacon in the area while I was putting the recipe together.

I'll taste it in a week and let you know how it is. I feel like (and I'm hoping that) this just turns out to be an awesome pumpkin pie beer. I'm thinking about bottling 3 gallons by itself and then bottling the other two with the spice and "Vanilla Butter and Nut" extract additions as needed to try and get that Pumking smell at least.

As a relatively new brewer, splitting batches has been one of the most rewarding things I've done. You get to learn so much more over the same amount of time it takes for another full batch.

And can't the yeast make a big difference in how much the spices come through in a beer? Won't a vigorous fermentation by the yeast let some of that spice character escape through the blowoff tube?
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Old 10-09-2012, 02:25 AM   #484
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Well, don't worry too much about your spice levels -- several others here did similar amounts and seemed relatively happy with it. I just know that I wouldn't be, that's all. But I surely recommend against adding pumpkin pie mix at bottling. Vanilla maybe, but no more spices.

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Old 10-09-2012, 04:57 PM   #485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedYellow View Post
And Pumking has no cinnamon, as some have noted. .
Some have noted this, true, but the ST site describes cinnamon as one of the flavors. Maybe they're lying to trick us.


From the site:

ABOUT THE BEER
STYLE: Imperial Pumpkin Ale
BREWED SINCE: 2007
ABV: 8.6%
FERMENTATION: Ale yeast, two types of malt, two types of hops, pumpkin
COLOR: Deep copper
EFFERVESCENCE: Medium carbonation
NOSE: Pumpkin, pie spices, buttery crust, vanilla, roasted pecans
FLAVOR: Malty sweetness, vanilla, clove, allspice, cinnamon, nutmeg, pie crust
BITTERNESS: Low
BODY: Medium-light
SERVING TEMPERATURE: 40-48°F
GLASS: Goblet
AVAILABILITY: Autumn seasonal, August release / 22oz / 1/6 keg
CELLARING: 35-40°F
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:35 PM   #486
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There seems to be more cinnamon in this years version than prior. Also, I don't believe they boil their spices, they are soaked in 151.

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Old 10-22-2012, 07:25 PM   #487
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I bottled my pumpkin beer yesterday.

I used TyTanium's spice mix. After a week in the bucket, I thought the spice character was too weak for my taste, so I added the same amount again, soaked in 151. At bottling, I thought the spice character was OK. However, any more clove or allspice would have been too much, and I wished it had more ginger. Next time I do this, I will make some adjustments.

I also added 1/4 tsp of the Vanilla Butter Nut extract to my 5 gal batch. Earlier it was said that 1/8 tsp yielded a good flavor, but not as strong a flavor as Pumking. At 1/4 tsp the flavor is obvious in the uncarbed beer. I do not find it too strong, but some may, and I would NOT add more than 1/4 tsp.

Overall this brew is tasting pretty good at 3 weeks old. The green taste has abated enough that the pumpkin has come back, and I think that the spices and extracts discussed in this thread were very helpful.

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Old 10-24-2012, 10:07 PM   #488
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I'm currently fermenting this, and I have a question about other ppl's experiences. Was your fermentation pretty slow? Mines been in primary for about 10 days, and gravity is at about 1.028. I'm kind of worried about this finishing out. Any thoughts?

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Old 10-24-2012, 10:19 PM   #489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cotillion
I'm currently fermenting this, and I have a question about other ppl's experiences. Was your fermentation pretty slow? Mines been in primary for about 10 days, and gravity is at about 1.028. I'm kind of worried about this finishing out. Any thoughts?
What was your OG, mash temp and did you use lactose? At any rate, I'd give it 3 weeks in primary but wouldn't expect it to move more than a couple more points. I went from 1.070 to 1.018 with 8 oz lactose, can't remember mash temp.
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Old 10-24-2012, 10:24 PM   #490
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Originally Posted by sivdrinks View Post
What was your OG, mash temp and did you use lactose? At any rate, I'd give it 3 weeks in primary but wouldn't expect it to move more than a couple more points. I went from 1.070 to 1.018 with 8 oz lactose, can't remember mash temp.
Thanks for the reply. I used about 2 oz lactose, OG 1.078ish. I mashed at around 158, but I'm never confident to the degree.

Would adding some DAP help? Shaking up the carboy? Or just sit tight?
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