Simcoe/Sorachi/Summit IPA ??

Any thoughts on my hop schedule for an IPA. I've never used Sorachi Ace, or for that matter made an IPA with only high AA hops like this. I want to try it as an experiment with FWH so basically Ill take the same hop schedule and brew again with the FWH moved down to a 20 min addition.

It's for a 5.5 gallon batch, IBUs with the fwh are predicted at 62, OG 1.063.

0.5 oz Sorachi Ace FWH
0.5 oz Nugget 60
0.5 oz Simcoe 20
0.5 oz Sorachi Ace 10
0.5 oz Summit 10
0.5 oz Simcoe 0
0.5 oz Summit 0

Dry hop 0.5 oz ea, Summit/Simcoe/Sorachi

I keep playing around and can't seem to settle myself on a final idea. What do you guys think?

Cheers,
Mike

Sounds like a bad combo to me, to be honest. You'll get citrus/pine from the Simcoe, lemon from the Sorachi Ace, and onion/garlic from the Summit.

I would drop the Summit and just go with the 1st two.

I happen to love Summit but I do think that it has a pretty strong flavor profile even is used in small additions. I am afraid you will loose the other hop flavors in the combination you have suggested. I have learned over time that a SMaSH will yeild a great deal of knowledge for any particular hop that I can then apply or experiment with over time in other batches.

g-star said:

Sounds like a bad combo to me, to be honest. You'll get citrus/pine from the Simcoe, lemon from the Sorachi Ace, and onion/garlic from the Summit.

I would drop the Summit and just go with the 1st two.

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You received a bad batch of Summit if you get onion/garlic out of it.

mclamb6 said:

You received a bad batch of Summit if you get onion/garlic out of it.

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Try Green Flash Imperial IPA and get back to me. That is a Summit beer and is heavy on the onion/garlic. Read other reviews as well...it's an established trait of that cultivar.

Well, I've got an IIPA that is Simcoe/Summit heavy, with a little Chinook/Columbus, and I don't get that at all.

g-star said:

Try Green Flash Imperial IPA and get back to me. That is a Summit beer and is heavy on the onion/garlic. Read other reviews as well...it's an established trait of that cultivar.

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while I definitely get it in that beer, everytime i've used it i get tangerine not onion/garlic.

Maybe I better check out the Sorachi on a single hop beer and do Summit/Simcoe combo.

Ive never noticed garlic out of Summit but then again I cook with a LOT of garlic fairly often!

Some people might be more sensitive to it than others, but it comes across very heavy to me. Green Flash IIPA is the best commercial example I can think of, they list Summit as the major hop right on the label.

Widmer Drifter is Summit and Nelson Sauvin, I made a clone off of this site that came out pretty good, I really like Summit and Widmer Drifter. I will say that I went to a restaurant that had Drifter on tap, it had major onion/garlic to it. I think it really depends on the Summit you get.

Oskar Blues Gubna Imperial IPA is only Summit and it has lots of yummy tangerine that's lost to an overpowering onion/garlic soup. I have since used summit hops with no noticeable onion/garlic, but I only use in moderation. I think it is a equal parts crop differences and usage rates that bring out that character.

According to the guys who run the annual hop school at Hop Union, the onion/garlic is a result of hops staying sometimes only 1-2 days past prime on the bines. The problem seems to arise from a desire for higher AAs, but overshooting just a little makes some of the compounds go a bit rank. FWIW.

head of sales at Willamette Valley Hops stated the Onion/Garlic from Summit is usually from adding them early in the boil. He said adding them late or DH should keep it orangey.

I'm finally cracking open my single hop Summit Pale Ale tonight. I used Summit from bittering to dry hop.

Piratwolf said:

According to the guys who run the annual hop school at Hop Union, the onion/garlic is a result of hops staying sometimes only 1-2 days past prime on the bines. The problem seems to arise from a desire for higher AAs, but overshooting just a little makes some of the compounds go a bit rank. FWIW.

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+1. it's supposed to be the same reason Simcoe and Citra can smell like cat piss or old cheese. They say you can get all kinds of rank smells/flavors by leaving them on the bine too long and it differs depending on the variety.

Apparently some people are more sensitive to those compounds as well so some can pick them up even when harvested at the right time.

Just to let ya'll know, I ended up brewing this combo (not the exact schedule listed orignially) and am drinking it now. While I didn't notice any garlic from the Summit, I did notice the pinesol of Sorachi, tasted just like it smelled before the boil. Young it was overpowering and I believe 'awful' was the word I used in my notebook to describe it. Now the flavors have mellowed a bit. That being said it's not a beer I would make again, but decent, enjoyable. Actually it's going fast but just doesn't have that 'yeah that's a good beer!' reaction.

Conclusion: make BM's summit pale ale, use rest of simcoe to make DFH 60 minute. Sorachi can sit there in the freezer until someone gives me a better idea.