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Old 01-18-2010, 11:46 PM   #1
polkbar
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Default Seeking advice on late-hopped IPA

The last two IPAs that really stuck out were Victory's Hop Wallop and Port Brewing's High Tide. I think the hop profile in these two beers is substantially different, but I'd really like to copy what they have in common - I'd like to make a reasonably dry, very light in color IPA.

Based on what I have on hand, I was thinking about the following (values from TastyBrew.com's calculator):

OG 1.068
FG 1.017
IBU 95
ABV 6.6 %
SRM 4
IBU 95
Boil Volume 4 gallons
Batch Size 3 gallons
Yeast : US-05 - (attenuation = 75%)

Fermentables
6 lbs Light LME

Hops
.5 oz Amarillo & .5 oz Simcoe at 20, 15, 10, & 5 min.
1.5 oz Amarillo & 1.5 oz Simcoe at FO

My questions are the following:

1) The LME is base malt and carapils, so my thinking was I don't need additional non-fermentables, which is why the grain bill is so simple. Should I press my luck and use ~.5 lb sugar to dry things out further? If not, is there anything else I might consider adding to the grain bill given my goal of a dry IPA?

2) I've never done an IPA with only late addition hops. I know people claim they get a more flavorful and less harsh beer, but is a calculated 95 IBUs too over the top for a beer in the 6.5-7% range (potentially higher and drier if I add sugar and/or the yeast attenuates beyond 75%)?

As far as limitations, I have 6 lbs of light LME on hand and plenty of both Amarillo and Simcoe hops. I also have Magnum and Styrian Goldings, but I didn't think either of those made much sense in a late-hopped IPA like this.

Thanks in advance for your help.

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Old 01-19-2010, 12:09 AM   #2
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I'm a big High Tide fan, and I've tried to replicate it. I think the key is wet hopping, which is hard or impossible if you don't grow your own hops.

But there is nothing wrong with an all-late hop schedule, that emphasizes flavor and aroma over mere IBUs. The best IPAs (Pliny, High Tide) are about flavor and aroma, not bitterness.

And Pliny is 8% and uses corn sugar. Just keep it at about 7%:

http://www.brew365.com/beer_pliny_the_elder.php



Quote:
Originally Posted by polkbar View Post
The last two IPAs that really stuck out were Victory's Hop Wallop and Port Brewing's High Tide. I think the hop profile in these two beers is substantially different, but I'd really like to copy what they have in common - I'd like to make a reasonably dry, very light in color IPA.

Based on what I have on hand, I was thinking about the following (values from TastyBrew.com's calculator):

OG 1.068
FG 1.017
IBU 95
ABV 6.6 %
SRM 4
IBU 95
Boil Volume 4 gallons
Batch Size 3 gallons
Yeast : US-05 - (attenuation = 75%)

Fermentables
6 lbs Light LME

Hops
.5 oz Amarillo & .5 oz Simcoe at 20, 15, 10, & 5 min.
1.5 oz Amarillo & 1.5 oz Simcoe at FO

My questions are the following:

1) The LME is base malt and carapils, so my thinking was I don't need additional non-fermentables, which is why the grain bill is so simple. Should I press my luck and use ~.5 lb sugar to dry things out further? If not, is there anything else I might consider adding to the grain bill given my goal of a dry IPA?

2) I've never done an IPA with only late addition hops. I know people claim they get a more flavorful and less harsh beer, but is a calculated 95 IBUs too over the top for a beer in the 6.5-7% range (potentially higher and drier if I add sugar and/or the yeast attenuates beyond 75%)?

As far as limitations, I have 6 lbs of light LME on hand and plenty of both Amarillo and Simcoe hops. I also have Magnum and Styrian Goldings, but I didn't think either of those made much sense in a late-hopped IPA like this.

Thanks in advance for your help.
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Old 01-19-2010, 12:09 AM   #3
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I have never had good luck getting extract brews to dry out. Have you made anything else with this LME? I would probably not add sugar as oyu want some malt backbone to balance (well, attempt to balance) the 95 IBUs. Edit: My favorite homebrew IPAs to date have a bittering unit:gravity unit ratio about 1.2 - 1.3. You are almost 1.4, but that seems to be what you are going for, so go for it.

I have never done a all late IPA either, so I can;t give you any guidance there. I can tell you that I love lots of late addition hops, but I have never not had an addition at 60 or 90. I would probably do .5oz Magnum at 60, but then that goes counter to your experiment.

If you want a lot of hop presence, make sure you dry hop too. I would never make an IPA without dry hopping.

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Old 01-19-2010, 12:27 AM   #4
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I have done two (2.5 gallon batch-size) stouts with this same LME and US-05. The partial mash Rye Stout went from 1.065 to 1.015 and the Coffee Stout went from 1.060 to 1.018 (but I think it still had a few points to go - I couldn't help myself and took gravity readings of both when the krausen dropped on the rye stout). They are both still in primary now.

I mashed in the high 140's with the rye, but both beers had ~ 1 lb steeped grains and no sugar, so I would imagine the planned IPA would attenuate more fully, even without added sugar.

As far as the dry hop comments are concerned, I've read comments suggesting that very large flame out additions can produce a really flavorful and aromatic IPA without dry hopping (and without the grassy components often associated with dry hopping). I've had good success with dry hopping in the past, but skipping the dry-hop was also part of my plan with this beer. I'm definitely open to arguments against this approach since I've never personally tried it.

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Old 01-19-2010, 12:40 AM   #5
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To expand on polkbar's post, See this article by one of the most-decorated homebrewers ever:

http://www.mrmalty.com/late_hopping.htm

I've been doing late and flame-out hopping my last 3 IPAs...

Quote:
Originally Posted by polkbar View Post
I have done two (2.5 gallon batch-size) stouts with this same LME and US-05. The partial mash Rye Stout went from 1.065 to 1.015 and the Coffee Stout went from 1.060 to 1.018 (but I think it still had a few points to go - I couldn't help myself and took gravity readings of both when the krausen dropped on the rye stout). They are both still in primary now.

I mashed in the high 140's with the rye, but both beers had ~ 1 lb steeped grains and no sugar, so I would imagine the planned IPA would attenuate more fully, even without added sugar.

As far as the dry hop comments are concerned, I've read comments suggesting that very large flame out additions can produce a really flavorful and aromatic IPA without dry hopping (and without the grassy components often associated with dry hopping). I've had good success with dry hopping in the past, but skipping the dry-hop was also part of my plan with this beer. I'm definitely open to arguments against this approach since I've never personally tried it.
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Old 01-19-2010, 03:22 AM   #6
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That's definitely the article that got me interested in this approach to IPAs.

My next question is, do I need to boil for a full 60 minutes? Depending on who you ask, DMS shouldn't be an issue with a shorter boil when using extract. Since I'm only adding hops starting with 20 minutes left, can I just boil for 30 minutes...hell, even just 20 minutes? Is there something I'm not thinking of here? A shorter boil would certainly help keep the color light, right?

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Old 01-19-2010, 03:37 AM   #7
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I see no reason to do a full 60 boil, especially if you are doing partial boils, just adds to carmelization, darkness, as you mention. Frankly, the only reason to boil extract is pasteurization and hop utilization.

I am an AG brewer now, so I do 60 minute boils regardless of hop sched.

Quote:
Originally Posted by polkbar View Post
That's definitely the article that got me interested in this approach to IPAs.

My next question is, do I need to boil for a full 60 minutes? Depending on who you ask, DMS shouldn't be an issue with a shorter boil when using extract. Since I'm only adding hops starting with 20 minutes left, can I just boil for 30 minutes...hell, even just 20 minutes? Is there something I'm not thinking of here? A shorter boil would certainly help keep the color light, right?
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Old 01-19-2010, 03:48 AM   #8
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I will be doing a full boil. It's a smaller batch size, but I will not be diluting post-boil.

Is pasteurization something I should be concerned with? To keep the color light, it's not a big deal for me to just add half the extract with 10 minutes remaining. What does pasteurization do wrt the final product?

Thanks for all the help, Brewinator.

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Old 01-19-2010, 04:39 AM   #9
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Ha, no, pasteurization just kills bacteria and mold that sits around in extract. Milk is pasteurized around 160F, they say 180F for extract, so yeah, even a minute of boil is enough to kill anything, except superior lifeforms which will take over earth and subjugate/eat us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by polkbar View Post
I will be doing a full boil. It's a smaller batch size, but I will not be diluting post-boil.

Is pasteurization something I should be concerned with? To keep the color light, it's not a big deal for me to just add half the extract with 10 minutes remaining. What does pasteurization do wrt the final product?

Thanks for all the help, Brewinator.
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