Schwarzbier confusion- Sinamar or carafa?

**TimBrewz** · 12-23-2009, 11:07 PM

So I am doing a schwarzbier (insert Star Wars puns here) and in my research I am finding recipes that range from only using Pilsner malt and Sinamar (Weyermann's colorant made from Carafa malts) to recipes that call for up to .75 lbs of Carafa III, .5 lbs crystal 60 with Munich as the base malt in a 5 gallon batch.

If there is no flavor added from the Simamar, is this just a black pils?

According to this BYO article, it should taste and smell like a pale pilsner, but be black in color....then according to this article the beer should have some roast character, even some chocolate and dark fruit undertones....

Further, it looks like there are tricks to get color and just a little roast character (avoiding highly roasted taste/astringency): Adding the dark grains late in the mash and grinding Carafa in a coffee ginder and sprinkling on top of the grain bed during late sparging.

I have had a few schwarzbiers- both German, and they seem to have a touch of roast? I may need to drink them again.

Any schwarzbier experts out there?
So, what is the deal? Dark grains or Sinamar? A mixture?

Prost! Tim

**Yuri_Rage** · 12-23-2009, 11:16 PM

Use Carafa Special II for the color and add maybe just a little chocolate malt or even less roasted barley. Carafa Special is dehusked and will give plenty of color and a touch of roastiness without the acrid burnt notes. If you have a grain mill, use it. Don't bother with a coffee grinder. Munich is a fine base malt. If you're a purist, skip the Crystal malt. If you're dead seat on a really dark beer, you can also add Sinamar. I would try the recipe without it, first.

Also, you know you're making a lager, right? Can you ferment cold?

I prefer some light roasted notes in a schwarzbier. If it's too clean, it's boring. However, it should taste surprisingly light given the deep color profile. It's among my favorite beers to use in changing the minds of the uneducated, "I don't like dark beer" crowd. They are almost always impressed.

Here is a good reference:
http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style04.php#1c

...and you mean Space Balls.

**TimBrewz** · 12-23-2009, 11:27 PM

Ahh, yes Space Balls. That is a horrible error!
I am ready for lagers...I do a few every winter in my basement. I am using the Wyeast Staro-Prague yeast this year. Doing a Bo Pils, Schwarz and Dopplebock. Holds at 50f with the wet towel trick in Jan/Feb , then in the kegerator at 34 for lagering.

I will do the Carafa II, I have a mill.

I think I did too much research on this beer....your advice is where I was headed unitl I started digging around.

Thanks Yuri!

phasedweasel · 12-23-2009, 11:59 PM

My advice is to make the beer you want to make. What is attracting you to the idea of a schwarzbier? A clean, crisp, thin black Pils? Maybe a little roast in there?

I recommend the Munich base, I'd prefer that to the pale mine used. I also had a half pound of 80L crystal and a quarter of 120L, and they aren't noticeable. I think they are good for the body, but then again, that's the beer that I wanted.

Scimmia · 12-24-2009, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimBrewz

I will do the Carafa II, I have a mill.

Make sure that's the Carafa Special, not the regular Carafa. The Carafa Special is the one that's dehusked, avoiding the roastyness. The regular Carafa is not dehusked, so it's going to have a harsher, roastier flavor.

**Yuri_Rage** · 12-24-2009, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scimmia

Make sure that's the Carafa Special, not the regular Carafa.

I made that mistake once. Carafa is REALLY strong stuff if it's not dehusked!

**bferullo** · 12-24-2009, 05:29 AM

Is it possible to do this type of beer with a yeast strain that will ferment at ale temps. I know Annapolis homebrew sells a few "lager/pilsner" kits that they say the yeast selected can be brewed at ale temps and give a "lager like" effect.

I can't do lagers. I don't have the room for a dedicaed fridge.

Please let me know any thoughts. My boss loves this style beer and I could score some mad points.

**Yuri_Rage** · 12-24-2009, 05:29 AM

Try Kolsch yeast at the lowest temp you can manage.

**david_42** · 12-24-2009, 01:35 PM

I did a comparison of a lager yeast vs Nottingham at the low end of its temperature range for a Schwartzbier and I really could not tell the difference. The recipe I used had 1/2 lb C90L, 4 oz Carafa III (de-husked), 1.25 lb Munich, as specialty grains.

I had almost finished the ale half before the lagering was done.

**fastricky** · 12-25-2009, 02:56 PM

What is 'Sinamar'? Inquiring minds wish to know...!