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Old 06-04-2013, 09:19 PM   #1
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Default Saison recipe help

6.6#lme
1# crystal 10
1/2 Simco
1/2 Amarillo ,dryhop
#1056 American ale with #3112 Brettanomyces bruxellensis

Suggestions for hop times or more hops are welcome, fermention temp and any other grains that might help would be some welcome I formation

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Old 06-04-2013, 09:39 PM   #2
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use light LME, pilsner LME if you can get it. if you have the ability to do a partial mash, you could add some munich and some wheat. if you can't, here's a recipe that uses munich and pilen extract: http://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/jamils-saison

personally i don't like crystal in my saisons, so a pound seems really high to me. jamil's saison recipe calls for 2 oz of caramunich (a crystal malt, albeit a rather unique one). so i'd suggest cutting the C-10 down by half, if not by 75% (if not completely).

one of the reasons that you don't want to use crystal is that a saison should be bone-dry. it's also why saison recipes typically call for sugar - so you might want to add some to your recipe.

if you want to make a saison, you should use a saison yeast. 1056 won't give you the fruit and spice flavors that make the style. for any belgian style you need to use the appropriate yeast. it's not to say that 1056 + brett won't make for a great beer but i'd hesitate to call it a saison.

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Old 06-04-2013, 09:41 PM   #3
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I would also prefer less crystal, especially considering the extract almost certainly used some already. Consider replacing some extract with sugar, too, for better fermentability.

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Old 06-05-2013, 12:05 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetcell
if you want to make a saison, you should use a saison yeast. 1056 won't give you the fruit and spice flavors that make the style. for any belgian style you need to use the appropriate yeast. it's not to say that 1056 + brett won't make for a great beer but i'd hesitate to call it a saison.
This.

Your recipe is a Brett APA. Got one fermenting myself. But for your 1st saison you might consider Wyeast3711--don't have to play games with it like some other strains.

Cheers!
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Old 06-05-2013, 12:37 AM   #5
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This is not a saison recipe. It's a... sweet pale ale.

I'd suggest using some Pilsner extract and some wheat extract together.

No crystal in there.

Make it to around 20-30 IBU's for style, so if you want american hops, I'd keep the amounts low, and late. 20 min and in, and won't need a bunch of them. Amarillo and Citra would work great in a Saison if you want American hops in there.

Use 3711. It's not fussy, and it's bone dry when it finishes, and likes whatever temp, above 70 that you can toss at it.

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Old 06-05-2013, 11:55 AM   #6
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I already purchased the yeast I'm using (American ale & a brettanomyces late addition) should I have a second one of what you suggest (3711) on hand in case it dies out early, also I have a pound of white wheat on hand should I throw 1/2 of that in the mix with the crystal & How long should I steep them for at what temp

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Old 06-05-2013, 11:59 AM   #7
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No - what they're saying is swap the 3711 in completely for the 1056. The yeast makes this beer and without Saison yeast it will not be a Saison - not even similar.

I would also suggest making the extract a pilsner extra t, if it isn't already as its part or the style

And wheat needs t be converted and cannot be steeped.

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Old 06-05-2013, 12:04 PM   #8
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I have Pilsen extract , how should I convert my wheat ? Could I just do a LONG steep to convert maybe like 60min At 150, if so will they crystal10
Be ok steeping that long ? Also what about adding the Brett to a 3724!?

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Old 06-05-2013, 01:48 PM   #9
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You will have to mini mash if you want to add wheat, if you aren't using wheat extract.

So you will need to include 2 row to convert the wheat, and will need to be able to mash it, not steep it. I don't mini mash, I do all grain so I'm not familiar with what amounts you need, but I would get like 2-3 pounds of 2 row, and then you can add your wheat. You'll need more than a pound I think. It will all need to be crushed, you'll need to be able to hold the temp at 149 or so for 60 minutes, and then drain the runnings, sparge it, and then go from there.

Also, if you use 1056, you will NOT have anything close to a saison.

If you are wanting to add brett, you will need to have other fermentables like oats, barley, wheat, something in there for the brett to eat on after your main strain, 3724/3711 finish the main fermentation. Brett will take a WHILE to come through, so if you brew with brett, don't expect it to just "happen" and give you the brett flavors and notes. Will be a couple months, where just plain ol 3711 will be done in 2-3 weeks.

Your best bet, since this is obviously your first saison, is to buy Pilsen extract, and supplement it with some wheat extract. Hop it to 20-30 IBU's, and be done with it.

Use 3711. The Dupont strain will have a tendency to stall out if not kept really warm, and it takes a bit of time to ferment out all the way.

If you are hell bent on adding Brett, then I'd suggest being open to waiting a very long time to drink this beer, as it will not happen over night. I'd suggest making a starter of the brett, as well.

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Old 06-05-2013, 02:36 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FATC1TY
You will have to mini mash if you want to add wheat, if you aren't using wheat extract.

So you will need to include 2 row to convert the wheat, and will need to be able to mash it, not steep it. I don't mini mash, I do all grain so I'm not familiar with what amounts you need, but I would get like 2-3 pounds of 2 row, and then you can add your wheat. You'll need more than a pound I think. It will all need to be crushed, you'll need to be able to hold the temp at 149 or so for 60 minutes, and then drain the runnings, sparge it, and then go from there.

Also, if you use 1056, you will NOT have anything close to a saison.

If you are wanting to add brett, you will need to have other fermentables like oats, barley, wheat, something in there for the brett to eat on after your main strain, 3724/3711 finish the main fermentation. Brett will take a WHILE to come through, so if you brew with brett, don't expect it to just "happen" and give you the brett flavors and notes. Will be a couple months, where just plain ol 3711 will be done in 2-3 weeks.

Your best bet, since this is obviously your first saison, is to buy Pilsen extract, and supplement it with some wheat extract. Hop it to 20-30 IBU's, and be done with it.

Use 3711. The Dupont strain will have a tendency to stall out if not kept really warm, and it takes a bit of time to ferment out all the way.

If you are hell bent on adding Brett, then I'd suggest being open to waiting a very long time to drink this beer, as it will not happen over night. I'd suggest making a starter of the brett, as well.
When you say drain the the running a what do you mean ? Also if I did use the wheat and didn't have two row what would happen to
The beer ? I hear you on everything else
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