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Old 03-30-2011, 01:21 AM   #1
Taygel
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I'm making a saison, I'm really wanting to make a basic, more historic style. Whats the one most important ingredients that makes a saison? Spices, Fruity, Grains?


Anything but yeast. Can't wait for the answers.

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Old 03-30-2011, 01:30 AM   #2
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What do you mean by "anything but yeast"? Saison yeast is an extremely yeast-centric style, so don't skimp on that.

Otherwise, it depends on the direction you are going. I don't like adding spices or fruit to saisons, and I think history backs me up on this one. Most of the classic malt bills would be straight continental pilsner, perhaps with a bit of wheat. Don't be afraid of the table sugar if you can't get it dry enough. Mash as low as your system can handle.

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Old 03-30-2011, 01:37 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taygel
I'm making a saison, I'm really wanting to make a basic, more historic style. Whats the one most important ingredients that makes a saison? Spices, Fruity, Grains?

Anything but yeast. Can't wait for the answers.
Yeah. It's kind of all about the yeast. It should finish so dry that you won't be able to pick out what makes up the grist as easily as you would with a standard American ale or something. Try 80% Belgian pils 15%Vienna and 5% wheat with 3711. A little caravienne or caramunich for color is good too. Or if you go with 3724 try the same grist but adjust it to fit 15% sugar and ferment warm. If you do 3724 you could even finish it with some Brett to dry it out.
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Old 03-30-2011, 01:40 AM   #4
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I only meant that I knew the yeast is a important factor...I'm thinking, keep it simple....but that other side of me is wanting to think outside the box!

Here is the recipe:

Simple Saison all grain

8 lbs of Belgian Pilsner Malt
1/2 lb of Carawheat malt
Willamette Hops...still not sure as to when and how much
White Labs Belgian Saison Blend....already going crazy with a starter!

Possible additions: Different malts, Seville Oranges, Acid malt, Grains of paridise, I'm thinking no spices. But maybe nothing added at all. Advice?

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Old 03-30-2011, 01:51 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taygel View Post
I only meant that I knew the yeast is a important factor...I'm thinking, keep it simple....but that other side of me is wanting to think outside the box!

Here is the recipe:

Simple Saison all grain

8 lbs of Belgian Pilsner Malt
1/2 lb of Carawheat malt
Willamette Hops...still not sure as to when and how much
White Labs Belgian Saison Blend....already going crazy with a starter!

Possible additions: Different malts, Seville Oranges, Acid malt, Grains of paridise, I'm thinking no spices. But maybe nothing added at all. Advice?
In my book, saisons are there to showcase yeast character. Anything else you add takes away from that. I like jmo88's idea of using a smidge of vienna to add a smidge of malt backbone, but otherwise I'd say keep it very, very simple. Saisons are already outside the proverbial box. I've not used that yeast, but I've heard reasonably good things about it.
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Old 03-30-2011, 04:11 PM   #6
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I like to keep it simple, no spices. Pilsner and a little Wheat. I would not use any american hops. I like Styrian and Hallertau.

For me the fermentation temperature is the most important. I use the Dupont strain, pitch at 75, raising the temp about 1 degree F each day, until I hit 86. I hold it at 86 as long as it takes to get down to 1.002-3. I've found that rousing the yeast really helps drop the last few points.

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Old 03-30-2011, 05:31 PM   #7
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NO spices. Mash very low, 5.2 pH, ferment VERY warm. And RDWHAHB when the yeast takes it's time finishing up.

Basic Pilsner malt with a hint of vienna and some wheat. I've heard of up to 20% wheat, but most people keep it under that. It's basically what people had on their farms, and I doubt that Saisons were very strict on the style parameters.

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Old 03-30-2011, 06:21 PM   #8
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Thanks for the help everyone. I'm taking your advice and adding some veinna malt to the recipe and i'm going to ferment higher in temp.

Final Recipe:
8 lbs Belgian pilsner malt
1 1/2 lbs vienna Malt
1/2 CaraWheat Malt

1 oz willamette 60min
.5 oz " @ 30 min
.5 oz " @ 5 min

White Labs Belgian Saison Blend.....Starter made 3 days ago.

Like you guys said......mash low, ferment high. Done!
Thanks Everyone.
Brewing today! Last minute ideas welcome.

Cheers
Nick

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Old 03-30-2011, 06:27 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewhappy View Post
I like to keep it simple, no spices. Pilsner and a little Wheat. I would not use any american hops. I like Styrian and Hallertau.

For me the fermentation temperature is the most important. I use the Dupont strain, pitch at 75, raising the temp about 1 degree F each day, until I hit 86. I hold it at 86 as long as it takes to get down to 1.002-3. I've found that rousing the yeast really helps drop the last few points.
That is pretty much my plan for saisons as well.
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Old 03-30-2011, 07:38 PM   #10
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I've made a saison recently (currently on wk2 of bottle conditioning).

Went for:
48% Maris Otter
48% Pilsner
2% Wheat Malt
2% Crystal 50l

Hops were classic Belgian......... Citra and Amarillo

Wasn't sure if I'd manage the right temperature etc for the Saison yeast so opted for WLP550 (achouffe). Took it from 1.058 to 1.010 (83% attenuation iirc) mashed at 148F.

Went a bit higher on the IBU at 35, and used FWH and mostly citra for bittering and then toward the end I started using more amarillo and cut well back on the citra. Dry hopped a little citra as well.

Tried whilst bottling and it was dry and had a really good farmhouse funkiness to it despite the hop choice. We went with the citra and slightly matlier grain bill to get something in the same vein as the Brooklyn Sorachi Ace. As far as spicing goes... I wouldn't bother with this style. Maybe if you're desperate to spice, try light amounts coriander, orange peel and maybe ever pepper (depending on compatibility of your yeast aroma/flavour).

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