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Old 05-15-2013, 02:33 PM   #21
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Any of those should be fine for a big RIS. Since big beers can take more attention, choose the strain you have the most experience using.

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Old 05-16-2013, 02:55 PM   #22
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Personally, I'd go with the Irish, Scottish, or American Ale. I would avoid the Abbey ale, as it will come out tasting like a Belgian Strong or Dubbel. The belgian strains produce the characteristic "phenolics" that taste like pepper, clove, nutmeg, and spices. While those things taste great with a clean fermentation—it won't taste like a Russian Imperial Stout.

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Old 05-16-2013, 02:59 PM   #23
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@soviet: perfect, i'm using 1728 scottish Ale :-)

To resolve the problem of pitch rate, i'll Made first a IPA in order to use the yeast formed by the IPA! Can I use 1728 to brew an IPA or it have a very different character?

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Old 05-16-2013, 03:54 PM   #24
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You can certainly brew a good ipa with 1728. I believe Heretic Brewing uses it in their wonderful Evil Twin red ale.

I would advise you against, however, repitching a yeast made in a higher alcohol beer like an IPA (typically, IPAs are between 6-8%), for yeast health reasons. Yeast are much more strained in that sort of beer, than say, a small english ale (4-5%). Additionally, if you're going to re-pitch yeast, make it a like-kind repitch. By that I mean don't pitch yeast that are covered in hop resins from a super-hoppy beer and weakened by a toxic environment of high alchohol into a malty dark beer (though you could argue a RIS is pretty hoppy and bitter).

You could probably get away with making a session-ipa or just an american pale ale and repitching that yeast cake. Just make sure the hops from both batches blend together well, since there will definitely be residual hop flavors in the first batch that carry over into the second batch. Great questions!

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Old 05-16-2013, 08:40 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soviet View Post
Personally, I'd go with the Irish, Scottish, or American Ale. I would avoid the Abbey ale, as it will come out tasting like a Belgian Strong or Dubbel. The belgian strains produce the characteristic "phenolics" that taste like pepper, clove, nutmeg, and spices. While those things taste great with a clean fermentation—it won't taste like a Russian Imperial Stout.
In the contrary, I've used the Roch strain (1762) to brew an RIS twice now, with none of those flavor contributions. It's very mild for a Trappist strain, and most of what you'll get is a nice warming alcohol sensation and a very mild dark/stone fruit flavor (and some have reported a hint of rosewater, but I've never gotten that). Rather than taking away from the stout flavors, I found it to meld quite well with the large amount of black malt I typically use. Just pitch in the mid 60s, don't let it ride above the low 70s, and it's a great yeast for this application. Plus it ferments reliably well with high gravities and alcohol levels, both of which are concerns in an RIS fermentation.
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Old 05-16-2013, 10:45 PM   #26
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...Or you could just ferment with a neutral strain that performs well at high gravities without the risk of phenolics, esters, or "rose water" flavors or whatever as a relatively newer brewer ought to. Especially considering we don't know if you have temperature control or not.

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Old 05-17-2013, 12:31 AM   #27
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Of course the OP can. In fact, I stated that quite clearly above when I said all the strains would produce a great RIS. I also cautioned against letting the 1762 go above the low 70s, which doesn't take any fancy temp control, it just takes a basement that'll site around 65F for the next week or so.

If you want to caution OP against using the strain, that's fine, but don't make false statements along the way. The esters and phenols the Roch strain throws out at moderate temperatures are very mild for a Trappist yeast, and will be absolutely covered up by the level of roasted malt in any RIS. I know this because I've used it several times, spoken with others who have made RISs with it, and tasted their beers. If you have had a differing experience with this strain, I'd love to hear the details, but if you haven't used it in an RIS, I'm not sure how you can be so sure that it will taste "like a Belgian Strong or Dubbel." Now I certainly don't know everything, far from it, but my experience tells me quite the opposite. At any rate, it's something concrete.

OP, I like big stouts, and I've brewed a good number. I've also used all these yeasts in RISs before except 1084. Here are a few thoughts:

1728 is a great strain. It performs well at a wide range of temps, handles high gravity and alcohol well, and will laugh at your OG. It's starting to get a bit warm out, so expect some stone fruit esters at the higher end of its range. In high gravity worts, it really helps to increase the fermentation temp near the end. I brew when it's still cool out, and move it from a cold room to a warm one as fermentation dies down. If you don't so that, its high flocculation rate can make it stop a bit prematurely sometimes.

1056 is very easy to use and maintenance free, but doesn't do well in extreme temps like 1728. You don't really have to worry about raising the temps at the end, and/because it will take forever to drop. Racking to a "bright tank" is almost a necessity, unless you can crash cool. I'd recommend racking it and keeping it at the same temp, as it's always been super slow for me at the tail end (weeks 3-6 of fermentation usually see a 2-5 point drop in FG). Otherwise, it's worry free.

1028 is similar to 1056 in its performance across temperature ranges, but it drops faster. It still attenuates well, and generally quickly. It's fairly neutral, but leaves a distinctive character...kind of astringent or tannic, but in a way that I like. It doesn't need to be babied, which makes it a joy to use.

1762 I've already spoken about, and I haven't used 1084 in an RIS. I have used it in an old ale, and I loved the soft, complex esters I got from it. I don't know if that stuff would even be noticeable in an RIS. There are just so many other flavors competing for the attention of the drinker. I hope you find something helpful in here.

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Old 05-17-2013, 03:22 AM   #28
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Of course the OP can.
He can also make an RIS with a Saison yeast. It doesn't mean he ought to. It might even taste good—but it won't taste like a true-to-style RIS.
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Originally Posted by GuldTuborg View Post
In fact, I stated that quite clearly above when I said all the strains would produce a great RIS.
Yeah.... let's not argue about the 3 of 4 things we agree on.
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I also cautioned against letting the 1762 go above the low 70s, which doesn't take any fancy temp control, it just takes a basement that'll site around 65F for the next week or so.
Don't care...

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If you want to caution OP against using the strain, that's fine, but don't make false statements along the way.
Didn't do any such thing. I've brewed with the Abbey II, and I'm quite familiar with it's flavor profile, hence my recommendation against it. (Not to say it's not a great yeast—it's one of my gotos for belgian styles) You say it's mild, I say it's not. I just didn't think it was a good one to start with for our friend here for reasons I've described that you don't approve of. Let's just agree to disagree.
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Old 05-17-2013, 04:39 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soviet View Post
He can also make an RIS with a Saison yeast. It doesn't mean he ought to. It might even taste good—but it won't taste like a true-to-style RIS.
To the American or English versions? Styles are always a bit fluid, and some poorly defined. Besides, OP didn't state he wanted something square in the middle of the BJCP style description. Still, we're splitting hairs here.

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I've brewed with the Abbey II, and I'm quite familiar with its flavor profile, hence my recommendation against it.
Fair enough, and I can respect that. In my defense, if I sounded harsh before, it was only because reasons for your arguments like this were not offered earlier on. That, and there's a trend of passing off all Belgian yeasts as the same around here, and all crazy phenolic, and I can get a bit excited when talking people down out of this false assumption.

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You say it's mild, I say it's not...Let's just agree to disagree.
I can drink to that. My apologies again if I came off as harsh earlier...rough day at work, blah, blah...
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Old 05-17-2013, 04:49 AM   #30
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Incidentally, on the topic of the RIS style, this is a good read. Apparently, not too long ago on England, fermentations ran up to 82F! Crazy stuff. I'm not sure I'd recommend this practice now, but it is interesting to see something of the historical perspective.

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