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Old 02-11-2013, 02:29 PM   #21
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Go back to the opener. He wanted to make a Red APA recipe more like a Red IPA.

Summit Red Horizon was just a decent American Red Ale for me. I'm thinking more along the lines of Maine Beer Co. Zoe, Troegs Nugget Nectar, or Founders Reds Rye. These are way more flavorful in both malt and hop character.

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Old 02-11-2013, 02:33 PM   #22
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Go back to the opener. He wanted to make a Red APA recipe more like a Red IPA.

Summit Red Horizon was just a decent American Red Ale for me. I'm thinking more along the lines of Maine Beer Co. Zoe, Troegs Nugget Nectar, or Founders Reds Rye. These are way more flavorful in both malt and hop character.
Ah, but when you talk about American reds, the key is "sweet and hoppy", and 15% crystal malt is indeed common. It won't be too sweet, if the OP is looking for a sweeter and yet hoppy beer. Rigidly comparing it to a typical American IPA, when it isn't, is making it look like the beer will be a sweet underhopped mess- and it isn't. It's not a bad red at all, and the hops character will come through.

I saw nowhere posted that the OP wanted an IPA, but red in color. I saw he wanted a red APA (American red), and it's a good solid American red.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:36 PM   #23
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Ah, but when you talk about American reds, the key is "sweet and hoppy", and 15% crystal malt is indeed common.
I don't agree. I think of an APA or IPA base with red color and a little more malt character than you're used to, but not necessarily sweet. - North Coast Red Seal and GF Hop Head Red are a few more examples. Those 5 reds I mentioned are some of the top rated in the American Red category by far.

Forget to remind you of his original thread as well in that last statement I made - http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/red-...edback-385570/
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:38 PM   #24
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I don't agree. I think of an APA or IPA base with red color and a little more malt character than you're used to, but not necessarily sweet.

Forget to remind you of his original thread as well in that last statement I made - http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/red-...edback-385570/
You certainly don't have to agree with me- but read the article on making an American red, and read the BJCP guidelines. It might not be to your taste, but it a widely recognized beer style, and it's a solid recipe for an American red.

I see you telling the OP to make a red IPA, but I see nowhere where HE wanted one!
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:40 PM   #25
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Thanks for the input, I'm still pretty new to brewing and just started formulating my own recipes so any feedback is gladly welcomed. I have a feeling this will turn out pretty well and also be a good learning experience. I already realized that I need a bigger fermenter as I lost well over 2 cups of yeast as well as some beer thru my blowoff tube.

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Old 02-11-2013, 02:43 PM   #26
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I never was one for agreeing with the BJCP.

If they say an American Red should taste like Killian's Irish Red, then I say they should go take a hike.

An American red doesn't necessarily have to be hoppy, but it does usually start with an APA or IPA foundation. Thus, it's very similar to these styles with a little more malt complexity and red color.

I see that the OPs hop schedule was IPA-esque... He also said,

'this might be a little hoppier than average, but i'm fine with that'

'I would like to try the Citra'

All signs that he wanted something more like a hoppy Red IPA than a sweet malty red.

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Old 02-11-2013, 02:45 PM   #27
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Ah, but when you talk about American reds, the key is "sweet and hoppy", and 15% crystal malt is indeed common. It won't be too sweet, if the OP is looking for a sweeter and yet hoppy beer. Rigidly comparing it to a typical American IPA, when it isn't, is making it look like the beer will be a sweet underhopped mess- and it isn't. It's not a bad red at all, and the hops character will come through.

I saw nowhere posted that the OP wanted an IPA, but red in color. I saw he wanted a red APA (American red), and it's a good solid American red.
You are spot on yooper. I originally wanted a hoppy pale ale, but with a red color and heavier body. I now realize that is an American red ale. Even if it doesn't come out perfectly, I'll still drink it. Thanks for the reassurance tho.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:53 PM   #28
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I never was one for agreeing with the BJCP.

If they say an American Red should taste like Killian's Irish Red, then I say they should go take a hike.
Well, they don't suggest Killians as even an Irish red as it's a lager and not at all an Irish red.

(Read the wiki, please- it's a great write up of an American amber/ American red and the goals for the beer, which is totally in line with the OP's desires).
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:05 PM   #29
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Well, they don't suggest Killians as even an Irish red as it's a lager and not at all an Irish red.
Even so, Killians falls under what would be considered the American Red Lager style... Just using a loose example of what people would normally blurt out when asked to name a popular red ale. It's more of an Irish-inspired red lager than actual Irish in design.

The wiki writeup claims they are sweet beers with full body, a lot of balance, and grassy hop notes. I don't agree with this. Red Seal Ale is one of the archtypes and is far from these descriptors. It's dry, pleasant, complex, malty, bitter, citrusy, and floral.

Please read what I gathered above from what the OP originally wrote about his desires. I italicized it for you. After his most recent comment, it appears that he must have been previously confused about what he wanted.
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:20 PM   #30
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All this talk about reds made me remember that I kicked a keg of IPA last night, and stuck a new keg in there to chill. I just tapped it and took a tiny sample (it's 10 AM here, so early even for me!). It's a lower OG version of Red Rocket, so it's not as big. But it's really good. It's got the citrusy notes, along with a hint of caramel sweetness and toffee.

Here's the recipe (10 gallons):
15 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 69.4 %
2 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 4 9.2 %
1 lbs Caramel Malt - 20L (Briess) (20.0 SRM) Grain 5 4.6 %
1 lbs Caramel Malt - 60L (Briess) (60.0 SRM) Grain 6 4.6 %
1 lbs White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 7 4.6 %
8.0 oz Caramel Malt - 120L (Briess) (120.0 SRM) Grain 8 2.3 %
8.0 oz Caramel Malt - 80L 6-Row (Briess) (80.0 SRM) Grain 9 2.3 %
6.0 oz Amber (Crisp) (27.5 SRM) Grain 10 1.7 %
4.0 oz Chocolate malt (pale) (200.0 SRM) Grain 11 1.2 %

1.00 oz Northern Brewer [10.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 12 17.2 IBUs
2.00 oz Cascade [8.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 15 10.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Centennial [9.60 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 16 12.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Cascade [8.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 17 0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Centennial [9.60 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 18 0.0 IBUs
California ale yeast
OG 1.054 FG 1.010 (I think- don't really remember and didn't write it down!)
IBUs 39

This is a very nice American red, from the first sample. I think the level of sweetness should be close to the OP's.

There isn't really such a thing as an American or Irish red lager, and the BJCP guidelines don't suggest that there is. Killians might sell, but it's not an "authentic" anything.

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