recipe for widmer hefeweizen clone?

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maboitan

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i like widmer hef and would like to make something similar to it. any recipes you could give me so that i might be able to achieve my goal?
 
Don't know about the grain/hops, but I read somewhere that they use the German Duesseldorf Altbier strain to ferment which explains the clean, almost lager-like flavor as opposed to the usual banana/clove you find in a hefe. Wyeast 1007 is the one to use. The White Labs offering (WLP036) seems to be out of season.
 
Hmm Widmer actually gives a lot of details about their beers. I put together a Broken Halo clone a few weeks ago which I am planning to do soon (another topic).

http://www.widmer.com/beer_hefeweizen.aspx

For the grist they give 11.7*P as the gravity (OG 1.045). 30 IBU. 4.9% ABV so it finishes low (fully attenuated). Pale, Munich, Wheat, Caramel 40 malt. Sounds like a Bavarian hefe but darker. I remember the color being around 5-6 SRM though I haven't had too many. Bittering is Alchemy (from what I have uncovered is a blend of Horizon, Magnum, Columbus, and maybe Summit). Willamette and cascade for aroma. They are in Oregon after all. :)

The thrill of the hunt continues..

A stab in the dark:

All-grain recipe, 70% efficiency:

4# Pale 2-row
4# Wheat malt
1# Munich
.25# Crystal 40

Mash 75 @149.

.5oz Horizon or Magnum or Columbus 45
.5oz Cascade 10
.5oz Willamette 10
1Tbsp white flour at flameout

OG 1.044 .. SRM 6 .. IBU 30

Ferment w/ Wyeast 1007 as cool as possible (60-64 is ideal).

Partial mash recipe:

6.5# Wheat LME
1# Munich
.25# Crystal 40

.5oz Horizon or Magnum or Columbus
.5oz Cascade
.5oz Willamette
1Tbsp white flour

Steep Munich and Crystal malts for 45 minutes at 152*F in 2 quarts of water. Add malt extract, 2.5 gallons of water, and bring to a boil. Add Horizon hops and boil 35 minutes. Add extract, Cascade hops, and Willamette hops, boil another 10 minutes. Turn off heat and stir in flour. Add to 2 gallons of chilled water and cool before pitching yeast. Ferment w/ Wyeast 1007 at 62*F.

All-extract recipe:

6.5# Wheat LME
1# Munich LME

.5oz Horizon or Magnum or Columbus
.5oz Cascade
.5oz Willamette
1Tbsp white flour

Bring 3 gallons of water to a boil. Add Horizon hops and boil 35 minutes. Add malt extract, Cascade hops, and Willamette hops, boil another 10 minutes. Turn off heat and stir in flour. Add to 2 gallons of chilled water and cool before pitching yeast. Ferment w/ Wyeast 1007 at 62*F.
 
I just stumbled across this looking for something similar and am curious why the white flour? I've never seen that in a recipe before... Cloudiness?
 
I think I'm giving this a run tomorrow... Had some Widmer over the holiday and really enjoyed it. Very easy drinking...

I picked up -
6.6 lbs Wheat Malt Extract
2 lbs Munich
2oz Liberty
1oz Saaz
Wyeast 1007

Thinking -
1oz Liberty 60 mins
1oz Liberty 30 mins
1oz Saaz 5 mins or flameout

Unsure about the flour addition...

Thoughts suggestions?
 
What do you guys think of this recipe? At least, those of you that have tried it...

Also, how important is the yeast? I have a cake of Wyeast 2565 (Kolsch) and tons of dry yeast (Notty and US-05), I'd rather use one of those.
 
I did the extract a while back and am enjoying it very much. it came out darker than I would have liked but I blame that on having used extract.

I think I'm going to give the AG version of this a try soon. I really like the Widmer wheat and would love to find a suitable clone.
 
On the same topic, has anybody tried to regenerate yeast from a bottle of Widmer Hefe?

(I, too, love Widmer. East coast hefes taste like formaldehyde to me, by comparison.)
 
Here's a recipe I'm working on, inspired by Widmers.

Extract:
6lb Wheat LME
.75lb Munich
.50lb Crystal 40
1 Tbsp flour

Just use an American Hefeweizen style yeast
 
On the same topic, has anybody tried to regenerate yeast from a bottle of Widmer Hefe?

(I, too, love Widmer. East coast hefes taste like formaldehyde to me, by comparison.)

It's available as WLP320. ;) I'm not sure if it can be cultured. I would imagine it is bottle conditioned but it wouldn't hurt to ask the brewery if it is and if so if they use the primary strain.
 
On the same topic, has anybody tried to regenerate yeast from a bottle of Widmer Hefe?

(I, too, love Widmer. East coast hefes taste like formaldehyde to me, by comparison.)

Despite using the word "hefeweizen" in the name, style-wise Widmer (and Pyramid, etc) are American pale wheat ales and not hefeweizens.

I'm not sure what east coast hefes you're referring to, but maybe you just don't like hefeweizens? American wheats don't have anywhere near the level of phenols and esters that hefeweizens do.

BJCP 2008 Style Guidelines - Category 06
BJCP 2008 Style Guidelines - Category 15

or

American Pale Wheat Ale - BeerAdvocate
 
Despite using the word "hefeweizen" in the name, style-wise Widmer (and Pyramid, etc) are American pale wheat ales and not hefeweizens.

I'm not sure what east coast hefes you're referring to, but maybe you just don't like hefeweizens? American wheats don't have anywhere near the level of phenols and esters that hefeweizens do.

BJCP 2008 Style Guidelines - Category 06
BJCP 2008 Style Guidelines - Category 15

or

American Pale Wheat Ale - BeerAdvocate
In my snobbish opinion, if it's not a German Hefe Weizen or a Belgium Wit then it's an American Wheat...there are no American Hefe Weizens!!! :mug:;)
 
In my snobbish opinion, if it's not a German Hefe Weizen or a Belgium Wit then it's an American Wheat...there are no American Hefe Weizens!!! :mug:;)

IMO, style labels are there to describe flavor. It's a lot more useful to say that Allagash White is a wit, Pyramid Hefeweizen is an American pale wheat, and New Glarus Unplugged is a hefeweizen than it is to say "they're all wheat beers from the US".

Honestly, flavor-wise Allagash White and Brooklyn Grand Cru have more in common with Hoegaarden or St Bernardus Wit than with American pale wheats like Pyramid or Widmer (or Sam/Anchor Summer, or Bell's Oberon, or whatever).

Likewise, New Glarus Unplugged and Live Oak Weiss have more in common with Weihenstephaner and Paulaner hefeweizens than with those American Pale wheats.
 
Has anyone done the all-grain version of Saccharomyces recipe? I think I'll give it a go as I have some 1007 and all the ingredients on hand right now.

I would imagine it is bottle conditioned but it wouldn't hurt to ask the brewery if it is and if so if they use the primary strain.

FWIW, I did a brewery tour recently and I'm pretty sure they don't bottle condition. They talked about co2 and controlling the yeast count in the bottle.
 
Here is where I ended up on this. I had 17.6% summit but it's old so I discounted it to 13%. Trying to ferment at about 62 but it was a few degrees higher initially.

Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 7.75 gal
Est Original Gravity: 1.049 SG
Bitterness: 34.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00

4 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 44.74 %
4 lbs Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 44.74 %
12.0 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 8.39 %
3.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 2.13 %
0.50 oz Summit [13.00 %] (45 min) Hops 23.7 IBU
0.50 oz Williamette [7.00 %] (10 min) Hops 2.8 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [6.00 %] (10 min) Hops 2.4 IBU
0.50 oz Summit [13.00 %] (10 min) Hops 5.3 IBU
1 Pkgs German Ale (Wyeast Labs #1007) [Starter 1000 ml] Yeast-Ale

Ended up not boiling off enough because I only did a 60m boil instead of normal 90m and forgot to compensate.... so the gravity is actually 1.045 and IBU will be closer to 31.
 
so if hefeweizen means yeast and wheat then i would say that widmer and pyramid both make excellent examples of that. Even if they are not traditional. just like good music or good automobiles things evolve thank god for good old american enginuity
 
Mine came out pretty good, and was rather similar to Widmer Hef, but definitely not spot-on. It had a certain lemony-ness that the Widmer one has, and initially, it was very cloudy. I let it age too long in the keg and it got 100% crystal clear. My version was a bit too malty, I would say. I would also probably up the hops a bit.
 
I am trying to lock in a Widmer Hefeweizen recipe and after looking at a few different ideas and drinking their beer... We decided to go with a slightly changed version of Saccharomyces's partial mash recipe! Here is exactly what we did:

  • 1lb Munich
  • 0.25lb Crystal 40
  • 5lbs Wheat DME
  • 0.50oz Hallertauer 45 min (4.8% AAU@ 1oz)
  • 0.50oz Cascade 10 min (6.8% AAU @1oz)
  • 0.50oz Willamette 10 min (4.8% AAU @ 1oz)
  • 1Tbsp White General Purpose Flour @ Flame Out

Wyeast 1010 or White Labs WLP320

Steep Munich and Crystal malts for 45 minutes at 152°F in 2 gallons of water. Add 4 gallons of water, and bring to a boil. Once boiling remove from heat and add 5 lbs. Wheat DME, stir until completely dissolved. Bring back up to a boil while watching for boil over!. After obtaining a soft roiling boil, start a timer for 45 min and add Hallertauer hops and continue to boil. At the 15 minutes remaining mark, add your wort chiller to the boiling wort to sanitize. At the 10 min remaining mark, add your Cascade and Willamette hops. Once the 45 minutes is up, remove wort from heat and sift/stir in flour. Cool wort to below 75° before straining (not filtering) into primary bucket and then pitch yeast. Store in a dark cool place according to the directions found on your yeast packet. To prevent clogged airlocks use a blow off tube during fermentation.

Notes: Our 40,000 b.t.u. burner and 7.5 gallon pot took a while to reach boil, however the 6 gallons made just enough wort to reach the 5 gallon mark on the fermentation bucket. After tasting the sample vs the real Widmer beer, our hops might be a little weak, time will tell, but it's close! Color looks to be spot on. O.G. was 1.048 (corrected for temp). This is the first brew I had to fight (hard) to stop from boiling over, the DME really locked in the heat on the smaller pot. The flour turned into little dough balls. We used a grain sack and a colander to aerate the wort and try to catch the dough balls (we never found them). It's currently sitting in the cellar at approx 63°. We will not be using a secondary fermentation vessel.
 
Would love to know how the extract of PM version of this came out -

Seems to be consensus that the hops needed to be bumped up a bit. Does the color/cloudiness come out as Widmer's has? That has been my issue with Hefs, either they come out too dark (amber like) or to clear, I can never nail down that perfect cloudiness with nice white head.

Maybe the flour addition will do that? But I don't like the idea of "dough balls" in my beer. ;)
 
Our sample was taken directly after pouring into the bucket and before the yeast. The color of what we brewed held up to a class of Widmer's hef was extremely close. The cloudiness was a bit heavier then the Widmer, but we expect it to fall into trub and are hoping the flour will retain a very close cloudiness. Taste was a bit malty but we are expecting that the yeast will eat enough of it's sweetness and that aging for a month on the trub will bring the hops out. All in all it will be a good beer and "should" be quite close to Widmers.
 
Maybe the flour addition will do that? But I don't like the idea of "dough balls" in my beer. ;)

Next time I think we'll make the flour into a slurry like you would for soup. After we strained the wort we didn't find the dough and nothing bobbed up to the surface, so I guess they broke apart.
 
I am trying to lock in a Widmer Hefeweizen recipe and after looking at a few different ideas and drinking their beer... We decided to go with a slightly changed version of Saccharomyces's partial mash recipe! Here is exactly what we did:

  • 1lb Munich
  • 0.25lb Crystal 40
  • 5lbs Wheat DME
  • 0.50oz Hallertauer 45 min (4.8% AAU@ 1oz)
  • 0.50oz Cascade 10 min (6.8% AAU @1oz)
  • 0.50oz Willamette 10 min (4.8% AAU @ 1oz)
  • 1Tbsp White General Purpose Flour @ Flame Out

Wyeast 1010 or White Labs WLP320

Steep Munich and Crystal malts for 45 minutes at 152°F in 2 gallons of water. Add 4 gallons of water, and bring to a boil. Once boiling remove from heat and add 5 lbs. Wheat DME, stir until completely dissolved. Bring back up to a boil while watching for boil over!. After obtaining a soft roiling boil, start a timer for 45 min and add Hallertauer hops and continue to boil. At the 15 minutes remaining mark, add your wort chiller to the boiling wort to sanitize. At the 10 min remaining mark, add your Cascade and Willamette hops. Once the 45 minutes is up, remove wort from heat and sift/stir in flour. Cool wort to below 75° before straining (not filtering) into primary bucket and then pitch yeast. Store in a dark cool place according to the directions found on your yeast packet. To prevent clogged airlocks use a blow off tube during fermentation.

Notes: Our 40,000 b.t.u. burner and 7.5 gallon pot took a while to reach boil, however the 6 gallons made just enough wort to reach the 5 gallon mark on the fermentation bucket. After tasting the sample vs the real Widmer beer, our hops might be a little weak, time will tell, but it's close! Color looks to be spot on. O.G. was 1.048 (corrected for temp). This is the first brew I had to fight (hard) to stop from boiling over, the DME really locked in the heat on the smaller pot. The flour turned into little dough balls. We used a grain sack and a colander to aerate the wort and try to catch the dough balls (we never found them). It's currently sitting in the cellar at approx 63°. We will not be using a secondary fermentation vessel.

So this is kegged and after waiting ... oh, 4 days we couldn't wait and tasted it (about 9 pints of it).

This is VERY close! The color and unfiltered look is perfect. There are no overpowering flavors and the mouth feel is right on. The wheat smell is a tiny bit lacking so I would add a bit more wheat next time. The hint of lemon is there, begging you add to add a real lemon, just like the real stuff. The head is thick and laceing hangs onto the glass nicely. If the wheat came through just a little stronger, I can't imagine an extract version getting any closer.
My wife and buddies GF could not tell what was the clone and what was the real, they both guessed wrong. To me that's a success since we made it for them.

The best part? 18 days after brew day, it's ready to drink!

Oh yeah.. we did transfer to secondary after a week. So flour slurry, more wheat, transfer to secondary.. that's what I would do different then what I listed above.

:mug:
 
so if hefeweizen means yeast and wheat then i would say that widmer and pyramid both make excellent examples of that. Even if they are not traditional. just like good music or good automobiles things evolve thank god for good old american enginuity

The fact that a hef is defined by the charactersistics given it by the yeast is why the Widmer Hef is not a hefeweizen. Thats like making a blonde ale with 1056 and calling it a Belgian blond because you used the same malt bill. They are completely different beers because of the yeast.

I don't really think beer styles should evolve either. Widmer made a great beer and called it a Hefeweizen probably because it is more exciting and sells better than calling it a wheat beer. That's not evolution of a beer style.

Of course their beer is fantastic and I think a brewer is free to call their beer whatever they want. I just don't think that because they call it a hefeweizen that we should adjust the definition of a hef, or create a new catagory to accomodate it. Especially when the beer falls very nicely into the wheat beer catagory.

Of course this is all just my opinion so take from it what you will.
 
The fact that a hef is defined by the charactersistics given it by the yeast is why the Widmer Hef is not a hefeweizen. Thats like making a blonde ale with 1056 and calling it a Belgian blond because you used the same malt bill. They are completely different beers because of the yeast.

I don't really think beer styles should evolve either. Widmer made a great beer and called it a Hefeweizen probably because it is more exciting and sells better than calling it a wheat beer. That's not evolution of a beer style.

Of course their beer is fantastic and I think a brewer is free to call their beer whatever they want. I just don't think that because they call it a hefeweizen that we should adjust the definition of a hef, or create a new catagory to accomodate it. Especially when the beer falls very nicely into the wheat beer catagory.

Of course this is all just my opinion so take from it what you will.
The Widmer Bros went to Germany and studied beer brewing. When they came back to Portland they wanted to make a American version of the German Hefeweizen. They made their first batch and ever since then that American version of Hefeweizen has been their flagship brew.
 
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