Randy Mosher said what? Malts 80-350 more acrid than the darks?

From Beersmith..."We discuss why there are not many malts made in the range of 100-350L color, largely because they have a poor flavor (cigarette ash)"

I listened to the podcast, which was hard to follow. Could this be the case? I don't have suite enough experience to know.

Great interview. I thought that point was interesting as well. Interested to hear people's thoughts.

Yeah, I've been planning my recipes as if the darker the roast the more acrid/astringent. I've heard that coffee is smoother with the darker roasts. It would be great if someone had experimented with this and could confirm what Mosher says. Pale chocolate at 180 should be terrible, I've used it alone and I do not recall it tasting ashy at all. Maybe a slight roast coffee astringency, but with 1.25#, you'd expect something.

Anyone know of another thread or source (podcast/blog, etc.) on this?

You can find the podcast on BeerSmith's website or on iTunes.

I never noticed that the only two grains I use between 100L and 350L are Crystal 120L and Special B. Those two aren't ashy. They are sweet.

Chocolate malt doesn't strike me as more intense than Roasted Barley. Roasted Barley tastes espresso-like to me.

I did like what he said about simplifying grain bills. I started doing this subconsciously 2 years ago and my beers got a lot better. I try to keep the number of different grains under 4 unless I'm doing a dark beer. For a dark beers, I'm in the 5 - 8 range, and I think of it as "layering flavors."

You mention espresso...you know, maybe it's the volume of something in the roasted grain that makes it seem less smooth. Like an espresso, it IS smoother, but concentrated as well.

Yeah, I've heard many times to simplify to the bare necessities and it's worked well for me as well. I've found some good ways to organize the grains in my mind (starting with the chart in "Designing Great Beers" Figure 4.1). Sometimes I'll get 2-3 across the spectrum of the Caramel strains (moist kilned) or Munich strains (dry kilned) depending on what I'm making.

So, if darker = smoother, how does it work with Wyermena's Carafa Special I, II, or III? is III smoother? Does it matter? I guess I'll have to brew a few to find out. ...Challenge accepted!

The Maltsters Thomas-Fawcett's own website says: Pale Chocolate - "Smooth chocolate flavor" and Chocolate Malt - "Strong coffee flavor"

Northern Brewer's Ingredients:
Chocolate Malt is "Bittersweet"
Pale Chocolate is "Smooth Chocolate/Coffee"

BYO article...
"I prefer it in the 350° Lovibond range rather than using darker choices because the lighter malt seems less bitter"
- Bill Riffle
https://byo.com/stories/issue/item/314-brewing-with-chocolate-malt-tips-from-the-pros

Is Randy off his rocker? WTH?

Today I used Carafa Special I today instead of Chocolate Malt just because of that Randy Mosher interview.

Then, because of the Gordon Strong interview I did not add the 2# Carafa I and 2# Roast Barley until the volauf. (15 gallon batch)



I remember the good 'ol days when I only had JZ and Palmer in my head!

The Carafas are a little different because they are dehusked and that reduces the bitterness of the roasted grain. But you do get more roastiness from the darker than from the lighter.

You can get quite a dark beer with just a few ounces of Carafa II and Carafa III without the coffee/espresso flavors of Chocolate malt or Roasted Barley. That's what I do with my schwarzbock.

m1k3 said:

Today I used Carafa Special I today instead of Chocolate Malt just because of that Randy Mosher interview.

Then, because of the Gordon Strong interview I did not add the 2# Carafa I and 2# Roast Barley until the volauf. (15 gallon batch)

I remember the good 'ol days when I only had JZ and Palmer in my head!

Click to expand...

I use the late steep for color as well. Usually it's something very dark, but I'm doing a saison this weekend and am adding special roast for an orange color late as well.

Does it work well for you?