New Giveaway - Wort Monster Conical Fermenter!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Recipes/Ingredients > Quick Opinions on a Porter recipe?




Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-23-2009, 03:04 PM   #1
shortyjacobs
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 2,511
Liked 28 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default Quick Opinions on a Porter recipe?

First time asking for opinions...usually I just "wing it", but this one has so many complex malts I wanted opinions.

Type: Partial Mash
Date: 10/23/2009
Batch Size: 6.00 gal
Brewer: Shortyjacobs
Boil Size: 7.50 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00


Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
3 lbs 2.4 oz Dark Liquid Extract (17.5 SRM) Extract 28.25 %
3 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 26.91 %
1 lbs Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 8.97 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 8.97 %
1 lbs Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 8.97 %
1 lbs Smoked Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 8.97 %
8.0 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 4.48 %
8.0 oz Carafa II (412.0 SRM) Grain 4.48 %
1.50 oz US Goldings [5.00 %] (60 min) Hops 22.4 IBU
1.50 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (60 min) Hops 20.2 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [6.50 %] (2 min) Hops 1.6 IBU
1 Pkgs SafAle (DCL Yeast #S-05) Yeast-Ale

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.053 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.014 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.06 %
Bitterness: 44.2 IBU
Est Color: 48.4 SRM


Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge Total Grain Weight: 8.00 lb
Sparge Water: 5.46 gal Grain Temperature: 40.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F TunTemperature: 72.0 F
Mash PH: 5.4 PH

Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 12.00 qt of water at 167.8 F -> 154.0 F


First time asking for opinions...usually I just "wing it", but this one has so many complex malts I wanted suggestions.



__________________
shortyjacobs is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-23-2009, 04:30 PM   #2
Bob
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Christiansted, St Croix, USVI, US Virgin Islands
Posts: 3,860
Liked 116 Times on 87 Posts
Likes Given: 33

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortyjacobs View Post
First time asking for opinions...usually I just "wing it", but this one has so many complex malts I wanted opinions.
Okay! Let's have a look.

Quote:
Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
3 lbs 2.4 oz Dark Liquid Extract (17.5 SRM) Extract 28.25 %
Here's the first issue I have. I recommend you switch to Light extract. Briess Gold is a good choice for this recipe.

It's useful to think of all recipes as "all grain" when you're formulating them. Extract is nothing more than the substitute for Pale or Pilsner malt in extract/steep or partial-mash recipes.

It helps to have knowledge of how extracts are made. They're nothing more than grain mashed and sparged. Then that sweet wort is concentrated. Pale extracts are mashed from pale malts only, or pale malt and a touch of another specialty grain for added body (Briess uses CaraPils in both the Gold and Pilsner extracts). Amber and Dark extracts are mashed with proportions of Crystal and black, roasted malts.

Thus, use of Amber and Dark extracts lessens the amount of control you have over the finished beer.

Quote:
3 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 26.91 %
1 lbs Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 8.97 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 8.97 %
1 lbs Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 8.97 %
1 lbs Smoked Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 8.97 %
8.0 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 4.48 %
8.0 oz Carafa II (412.0 SRM) Grain 4.48 %
Porter grists should be pretty simple. Pale, Crystal, Chocolate, and Black Patent; that's all you really need. My best porter has the proportions of 70%, 10%, 10% and 5%, respectively.

I'd cut the CaraPils. You don't want much more than 10% Crystal malt in Porter, and CaraPils is a Crystal malt.

You've also got a surfiet of Black Patent. Much more than 4 oz., even when used with such a large allotment of Chocolate malt, runs a very real risk of overpowering the beer with harsh, burnt, phenolic flavors.

Carafa II is really just for color. With Chocolate and Black Patent, you've got quite enough color. Porter, even Robust Porter, should be slightly translucent with a deep red color. This is best seen in a Pilsner glass; in a pint glass, it will be black with the merest hints of color. Therefore, I wouldn't bother with the Carafa.

Smoked malt I wouldn't touch with a ten-foot mashing fork. Like I said, I like good old-fashioned Porter. But I can tell you that a full pound is tremendous overkill. I'd not use more than 4-6 oz. in 6 gallons.

Of course, deleting all those specialty malts will have a tendency to bring your OG down. I'd add the remainder back with pale DME to bring it back to your desired OG.

Quote:
1.50 oz US Goldings [5.00 %] (60 min) Hops 22.4 IBU
1.50 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (60 min) Hops 20.2 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [6.50 %] (2 min) Hops 1.6 IBU
1 Pkgs SafAle (DCL Yeast #S-05) Yeast-Ale
I have no problems with any of this. Great yeast, and the hops profile sounds nummy.

Regards,

Bob


Bob is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-23-2009, 04:50 PM   #3
mkling
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Chapel Hill, North Carolina
Posts: 727
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts

Default

Just a few comments:

1) I agree with Bob above -- switch the Dark extract to light. You've got plenty of color & flavor coming from your other malts -- you don't need it.

2) You've got too much dark roast malts in there (2 lbs if you include the Carafa). Personally, I'd go with a max of about 1 lb for a robust porter -- make it whatever combo of chocolate & black patent you want -- could be 1/2 & 1/2, could be 3/4 choc & 1/4 bp. Like Bob said -- drop the Carafa, it only adds color & you don't need that.

3) The one place I'll disagree with Bob is the Smoked malt & that I'll do with a caveat. If by Smoked malt, you mean peat-smoked malt, Bob is right, 1 lb of that will ruin a beer very quickly. If you mean 1 lb of rauch malt, I think that would be super in there. Alaskan Smoked Porter & Stone Smoked Porter are both tremendous beers. Jamil also has a smoke porter recipe that adds 3 lbs of rauchmalt. 1lb would lend a nice hint of this that would complement some of the other flavors, I think.

4) Inclusion of Cara-pils? I think it would be fine in there; it would be also fine to drop it. You're mashing at 154 which should leave some long-chain dextrines, so this may make it unnecessary.

I do think this will be a nice batch of beer. Good luck.

__________________
Currently On Draft: Bamberger Rauch Dunkel, Belgian Blond, Pilsener Urquell clone, Smoked Porter
Bottled: Concord Pyment, Mi'Apa Sparkling Mead, Chimay Blue, Old Simcoe American Barleywine, Old Cantankerous
Fermenting and Conditioning: Pseudo-Decoction Munich Dunkel, Left Hook Bitter
Recently Kicked Kegs: Fresh Hop Pale Ale, Citra Rye IPA
On Deck: Old Rasputin, Northstar IPA, Ur-bock Dunkel
mkling is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-23-2009, 05:26 PM   #4
shortyjacobs
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 2,511
Liked 28 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

Thanks for the comments folks!

OK, I see the point with the LME, Pilsen it is.

The Carafa was just an impulse click.....I just keep seeing it used, and it's dark, so I figured I'd see what it did. Now that you folks told me what it does, no problems, it's gone.

I'm gonna keep the CaraPils...isn't it just like 2-row, but with better head retention?? I thought Crystal malts were darker...

I also will stay with 1 lb chocolate and .5 lb black malt...I know it's not recommended, but I like big bold beers.....if I don't try, I'll never learn, right?

As for the smoked, honestly I've never had any smoked beer before, but I was thinking it might taste good. I'm going with the campfire vibe here, the chocolate and BP to give kind of coffee/chocolate flavors, like drinking irish coffee while eating smores around a campfire, and campfires produce smoke. Northern Brewer has "Weyermann Smoked Malt", which I THINK is this rauch malt, right? Thanks for the description of differences...peat-y flavors I don't want, smoke-y flavors I do want...

I made up for missing SG points with more 2-row, as LME only comes in 3.15 and 6 lb jugs from NB. Let me know what you think! I'll be picking up the ingredients on the way home tonight and brewing tomorrow or sunday!

Amount Item Type % or IBU
3 lbs 2.4 oz Pilsner Liquid Extract (3.5 SRM) Extract 28.25 %
3 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 31.39 %
1 lbs Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 8.97 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 8.97 %
1 lbs Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 8.97 %
1 lbs Smoked Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 8.97 %
8.0 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 4.48 %

__________________
shortyjacobs is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-23-2009, 05:59 PM   #5
Freezeblade
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Oakland, California
Posts: 1,415
Liked 21 Times on 13 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortyjacobs View Post
I'm gonna keep the CaraPils...isn't it just like 2-row, but with better head retention?? I thought Crystal malts were darker...
Carapils is a crystal malt, just a light colored one, and with 16% crystal malts in your grist, that thing's going to be way too sweet, I say mash at 156 and drop the carapils, or at least cut it back by half.
__________________
Primary:Russian River Redemption clone, Kelly's Melomel, Graham's English Cider 22-23
Clearing:Apple Wine
Aging:Public House Dry Stout, Procrastination Porter, Mr. Brown Ale, Westvleteren 12 Clone, Mead, Duvel Clone, Graham's English Cider 6-21, Belgian Draak Strong Ale, Fig Melomel, Acerglyn, Restorative Tonic Metheglyn
Freezeblade is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-23-2009, 06:05 PM   #6
shortyjacobs
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 2,511
Liked 28 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freezeblade View Post
Carapils is a crystal malt, just a light colored one, and with 16% crystal malts in your grist, that thing's going to be way too sweet, I say mash at 156 and drop the carapils, or at least cut it back by half.
Ah, so "crystal" means more than "barley that's roasted to be a certain lovibond color"?

Sounds good.....With 3 to 1 against, I think I'll go with the advice of the masses and sub more 2-row for the Carapils...

Edit:
Haha, look at that, now I'm pretty much back to Bob's "70/10/10/5" ratio of 2-row, Crystal, Chocolate, and BP, with a bit of smoked for good measure.

Amount Item Type % or IBU
3 lbs 2.4 oz Pilsner Liquid Extract (3.5 SRM) Extract 28.25 %
4 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 40.36 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 8.97 %
1 lbs Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 8.97 %
1 lbs Smoked Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 8.97 %
8.0 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 4.48 %
__________________

Last edited by shortyjacobs; 10-23-2009 at 06:08 PM.
shortyjacobs is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-23-2009, 06:09 PM   #7
Bob
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Christiansted, St Croix, USVI, US Virgin Islands
Posts: 3,860
Liked 116 Times on 87 Posts
Likes Given: 33

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortyjacobs View Post
I'm gonna keep the CaraPils...isn't it just like 2-row, but with better head retention?? I thought Crystal malts were darker...
Nope. Think about the name for a second: "CaraPils/Dextrine Malt". It enhances foam, but also enhances body and mouthfeel. Briess does not recommend using more than 5% in the grist. And if you choose a Briess extract for the base, there's already some in there and you don't know how much! I think they use about 5% in the Gold and Pilsner extracts, but I don't know for certain; they don't list their proprietary recipes.

So if you stick with what you've got, you'll have almost three times the CaraPils the manufacturer recommends. Then add in the dextrins from your relatively high mash temperature. Suddenly you're faced with a thick, chewy beer. I really don't like that in a Porter. But hey, it's your beer!

Dark roasted malts ehance foam retention, as does Crystal malt, and Crystal malt enhances body and mouthfeel as well as flavor and color.

Okay, most Crystal malts are darker, starting at 10L and running up to 120L+. But CaraPils goes through much the same process and has the same overall effect on the beer as Crystal. CaraPils doesn't impart flavor or color, that's all.

The extract brewer only needs CaraPils in pale beers. The mashing brewer doesn't need it at all.

Quote:
I also will stay with 1 lb chocolate and .5 lb black malt...I know it's not recommended, but I like big bold beers.....if I don't try, I'll never learn, right?
Truth! And it certainly isn't going to harm anything.

Quote:
As for the smoked, honestly I've never had any smoked beer before, but I was thinking it might taste good. I'm going with the campfire vibe here, the chocolate and BP to give kind of coffee/chocolate flavors, like drinking irish coffee while eating smores around a campfire, and campfires produce smoke. Northern Brewer has "Weyermann Smoked Malt", which I THINK is this rauch malt, right? Thanks for the description of differences...peat-y flavors I don't want, smoke-y flavors I do want...
There you go! Like I said, my tastes differ - though I know the Alaskan and Stone beers are excellent, I just can't get 'em past my nose.

Quote:
Edit:
Haha, look at that, now I'm pretty much back to Bob's "70/10/10/5" ratio of 2-row, Crystal, Chocolate, and BP, with a bit of smoked for good measure.
Come to the dark side. We've got ... er ... dark stuff.

Cheers,

Bob
__________________
http://www.reconstructinghistory.com
Bob is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-23-2009, 06:20 PM   #8
shortyjacobs
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 2,511
Liked 28 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NQ3X View Post
Nope. Think about the name for a second: "CaraPils/Dextrine Malt". It enhances foam, but also enhances body and mouthfeel. Briess does not recommend using more than 5% in the grist. And if you choose a Briess extract for the base, there's already some in there and you don't know how much! I think they use about 5% in the Gold and Pilsner extracts, but I don't know for certain; they don't list their proprietary recipes.

So if you stick with what you've got, you'll have almost three times the CaraPils the manufacturer recommends. Then add in the dextrins from your relatively high mash temperature. Suddenly you're faced with a thick, chewy beer. I really don't like that in a Porter. But hey, it's your beer!

Dark roasted malts ehance foam retention, as does Crystal malt, and Crystal malt enhances body and mouthfeel as well as flavor and color.

Okay, most Crystal malts are darker, starting at 10L and running up to 120L+. But CaraPils goes through much the same process and has the same overall effect on the beer as Crystal. CaraPils doesn't impart flavor or color, that's all.

The extract brewer only needs CaraPils in pale beers. The mashing brewer doesn't need it at all.


Cheers,

Bob
Fantastic. Great information, thanks Bob! I'm learning so much in this one thread....I've just made up recipes in the past without input, but I've yet to taste any! (all 5 of my "from scratch" creations are sitting in fermenters right now...lol....hopefully they turn out OK too!)....I'm glad I asked for input with this one as I'm certainly learning a lot. I also just read through this Wikipedia page which was extremely informative and gave me some background to understand what's being said here.

Thanks again, I can't wait to brew this.


__________________
shortyjacobs is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My Holiday Porter, Your Opinions Gremlyn Recipes/Ingredients 14 12-15-2009 12:56 AM
Cinnamon Porter--Is it possible? Looking for opinions and guidance! brackbrew Recipes/Ingredients 5 08-16-2009 06:34 PM
porter fermenting timeline opinions please Brewer#19 Extract Brewing 9 09-05-2007 10:00 PM