Quick Advice?: My first "winging it" beer (an Altbier)

smolakian · 09-28-2007, 01:54 AM

So, I went to my LHBS last night with a printout of a recipe from here that was kind of a last minute thing...I need to have a batch ready for next weekend. (Yes I keg)

My original plan was to brew 10 Gal. of the same brew and try 2 different yeasts just to see how they both turned out. But, of course as soon as I got to the store I decided to "wing it" on my other batch and I ended up buying some random ingredients. (I've only been brewing since the spring). Once I got home I did some research while the first batch was brewing and I discovered that I was gonna end up making Altbier!

This is the first time I haven't been following a recipe "by the book".
What do you guys think?:

5.25lbs Munich LME
2lbs Pale LME
8oz chocolate malt
8oz crystal 75L
1oz. Tettnanger (60min.)
.5oz Hallertau(15min) + 1 tsp. Irish moss
1007 Wyeast

I'm holding at ~170deg. for 30min with the crystal and chocolate teabag. Then adding LME and Tettnanger.

I've heard that this style lends itself well to longer boil times. I was thinking of doing an extra 30 min. with 1 or .5 oz hallertau after the first hour of boil. What do you guys think?

I just started it and would be willing to tweak my hop schedule if I get some quick replies. I'm not too nervous just because too little or too much hops won't really bother me (I like it both ways!). But, I'd like to be "true to style"...Although, I don't think I've even tasted a true altbier.

mrkristofo · 09-28-2007, 05:36 AM

If you're brewing an altbier, keep in mind they're kind of tricky. They require ferm temps on the colder end of the ale scale (say 60˚F), and usually a lagering period (a couple weeks cold) to really make em nice. Since you say you've never had one, here's a couple notes on what you *hopefully* are making:

Overall Impression: A well balanced, bitter yet malty, clean, smooth, well-attenuated copper-colored German ale.

Color: Orange-bronze to deep copper color, yet stopping short of brown. Brilliant clarity (may be filtered). Thick, creamy, long-lasting off-white head.

Aroma: Clean yet robust and complex aroma of rich malt, noble hops and restrained fruity esters. The malt character reflects German base malt varieties. The hop aroma may vary from moderate to very low, and can have a peppery, floral or perfumy character associated with noble hops. No diacetyl.

Flavor: Assertive hop bitterness well balanced by a sturdy yet clean and crisp malt character. The malt presence is moderated by high attenuation, but considerable rich and complex malt flavors remain. Some fruity esters may survive the lagering period. A long-lasting, dry, bittersweet or nutty finish reflects both the hop bitterness and malt complexity. Noble hop flavor can be moderate to low. No roasted malt flavors or harshness. No diacetyl. Some yeast strains may impart a slight sulfury character. A light minerally character is also sometimes present in the finish, but is not required.
OK, first, here's what I got for your ingredients:

Alt-on-the-fly
7-C Düsseldorf Altbier

Size: 5.06 gal
Efficiency: 75.0%
Attenuation: 75.0%
Calories: 176.17 per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.053 (1.046 - 1.054)
|=====================#==========|
Terminal Gravity: 1.013 (1.010 - 1.015)
|==================#=============|
Color: 23.0 (13.0 - 17.0)
|================================|
Alcohol: 5.21% (4.5% - 5.2%)
|========================#=======|
Bitterness: 19.08 (35.0 - 50.0)
|================================|

Ingredients:
5.25 lbs Munich Liquid
2 lbs Pale Liquid
8 oz Belgian Chocolate Malt
.5 lbs Crystal 75
1 oz Tettnanger (4.5%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min
.5 oz Hallertau (4.5%) - added during boil, boiled 15 min
1 ea WYeast 1007 German Ale

Results generated by BeerTools Pro 1.0.28

So I tweaked it a bit to hit style guidlines for ya. Having just brewed a minimash altbier 2 weeks ago, I have some sort of idea how even a tiny bit of dark grains will throw off the color. From 4oz chocolate I ended up with "SHouldn't-a-been-a-porter alt"

Anyway, here's my results after tweaking the chocolate malt, and adding your hop suggestions...

Alt-on-the-fly
7-C Düsseldorf Altbier

Size: 5.06 gal
Efficiency: 75.0%
Attenuation: 75.0%
Calories: 170.87 per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.051 (1.046 - 1.054)
|==================#=============|
Terminal Gravity: 1.013 (1.010 - 1.015)
|=================#==============|
Color: 16.0 (13.0 - 17.0)
|====================#===========|
Alcohol: 5.05% (4.5% - 5.2%)
|====================#===========|
Bitterness: 36.92 (35.0 - 50.0)
|==========#=====================|

Ingredients:
5.25 lbs Munich Liquid
2 lbs Pale Liquid
2 oz Belgian Chocolate Malt
.5 lbs Crystal 75
1 oz Tettnanger (4.5%) - added during boil, boiled 90 min
.5 oz Hallertau (4.5%) - added during boil, boiled 45 min
1 oz Hallertau (4.5%) - added during boil, boiled 30 min
.5 oz Hallertau (4.5%) - added during boil, boiled 15 min
1 tsp Irish Moss - added during boil, boiled 15 min
1 ea WYeast 1007 German Ale

Schedule:
Ambient Air: 70.0 °F
Source Water: 60.0 °F
Elevation: 4300 ft

00:00:00 Steep Grains - Rest: 30 min; Temp: 155.0 °F

Results generated by BeerTools Pro 1.0.28

By stylistic guidelines, it's also spot-on for a 7A - Northern German Alt, too.

hope that helps.

**Jaybird** · 09-28-2007, 05:50 AM

hay brother if you want an Alt to be ready by next weekend Your gonna have to go buy some couse they take at least 3-4 weeks to ferment in primery and at least 2-3 weeks in secondary before you condition and carb.
Just the heads up.
JJ

smolakian · 09-28-2007, 02:33 PM

Thanks for the advice. Although, by the time I got it I had just finished. Oh well. I did have a feeling that it was gonna be a little dark. But, it doesn't really look like a porter. It's dead-on milk chocolate brown right now (poo!) and I'm curious to see how it looks when it clears.
Heres how it ended up:
45min pre-boil with grains
90min 1 oz. Tettnanger
20min 1oz Hallertau
2min .5oz Hallertau
I popped the Wyeast's cherry yesterday and It was pretty lively
Fermentation was already starting when I left for work this morning. (thats probably the fastest liquid start for me)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaybird

hay brother if you want an Alt to be ready by next weekend Your gonna have to go buy some couse they take at least 3-4 weeks to ferment in primery and at least 2-3 weeks in secondary before you condition and carb.
Just the heads up.
JJ

The Alt isn't for next weekend. I brewed an english ale with dry yeast two days ago that's well into fermentation:
The bitter from wwest in this thread: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/need-last-minute-ale-35843/?highlight=fast+fermenting
I have a kegerator and have achieved good results force carbing.

From what I've gathered on the internet, the Alt really only needs about a week in primary and no secondary besides the conditioning. (Luckily the temperatures here in CO are perfect for Altbier primary) So, I was planning to pop it in the fridge right after primary, try it after a few weeks and make a decision. (From the Wyeast website on their 1007: "Beers mature rapidly, even when cold fermentation is used.")
Questions with that approach though:
Should I secondary/condition/serve all in the cornie? I have enough room in my kegerator for a cornie + carboy. But, adding that second carboy transfer might be a waste of time anyway. Considering the fact that it'll settle out in the corny and never get moved/jostled again. (the conditioning fridge is the same as the serving fridge) I'll just have those first few yeasty pints for health.

I'm lucky enough to live near Denver where they put on the Great American Beer Festival every year. So, I'm pouring at a few tasting sessions. I hope to sample a good American Altbier. I'm sure out of the 1000+ different brews I'll be able to find something authentic. Anyone know a microbrew that makes one?

mrkristofo · 09-28-2007, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smolakian

Thanks for the advice. Although, by the time I got it I had just finished. Oh well. I did have a feeling that it was gonna be a little dark. But, it doesn't really look like a porter. It's dead-on milk chocolate brown right now (poo!) and I'm curious to see how it looks when it clears.
Heres how it ended up:
45min pre-boil with grains
90min 1 oz. Tettnanger
20min 1oz Hallertau
2min .5oz Hallertau
I popped the Wyeast's cherry yesterday and It was pretty lively
Fermentation was already starting when I left for work this morning. (thats probably the fastest liquid start for me)

The Alt isn't for next weekend. I brewed an english ale with dry yeast two days ago that's well into fermentation:
The bitter from wwest in this thread: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/need-last-minute-ale-35843/?highlight=fast+fermenting
I have a kegerator and have achieved good results force carbing.

From what I've gathered on the internet, the Alt really only needs about a week in primary and no secondary besides the conditioning. (Luckily the temperatures here in CO are perfect for Altbier primary) So, I was planning to pop it in the fridge right after primary, try it after a few weeks and make a decision. (From the Wyeast website on their 1007: "Beers mature rapidly, even when cold fermentation is used.")
Questions with that approach though:
Should I secondary/condition/serve all in the cornie? I have enough room in my kegerator for a cornie + carboy. But, adding that second carboy transfer might be a waste of time anyway. Considering the fact that it'll settle out in the corny and never get moved/jostled again. (the conditioning fridge is the same as the serving fridge) I'll just have those first few yeasty pints for health.

I'm lucky enough to live near Denver where they put on the Great American Beer Festival every year. So, I'm pouring at a few tasting sessions. I hope to sample a good American Altbier. I'm sure out of the 1000+ different brews I'll be able to find something authentic. Anyone know a microbrew that makes one?

You'll want to give it a week in the primary, rack it to the secondary for 2, then cold condition in the corny. Not so much a factor of yeast getting stirred up, but more of a factor of autolysis. Those flavors can be pretty obvious in an alt. Ever had Alaskan Amber? That's a decent northern german altbier. Widmer Ur-alt for a Düsseldorf Alt.