The Great Bottle Opener Giveaway

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Recipes/Ingredients > Planned No Sparge Brew

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-19-2009, 09:40 AM   #1
Deebee
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: North west Norway
Posts: 91
Default Planned No Sparge Brew

A couple of weeks ago i brewed my most successful brew day ever.

I used Wyeast ESB for the first time and think i might have gotten an infection. I also used Crystal hops for the first time and at present the taste is extremely harsh.

I took it off the lees yesterday and bottled /kegged.

The point being that this was planned as the Christmas brew. However on the account that i may have to go down the sink i am going to have to do another this weekend and need to make sure i get it right.

We travel away on Saturday so friday night will be brew night. I will not be able to start until around 7 pm and this will make for a late night so i am considering doing a no sparge.

Earlier discussions have led me to believe that i should really set therecipe with only 50 % efficiency in mind to ensure that at least i get something. But i have a few questions and hope someone with more exoerience than i may be able to shed some light on the questions that i have.

The grain bill will look like this for a 15 liter (4us gallon ??) batch

4900grams (10.8lb) pale
250 g ( .55lb) medium crystal
50 g (0.11lb) (black patent)
150g (.33lb) wheat

Based on 50 % this will gove me a final strength of 5.4%. Ideally seeing this is a witer warmer style i would like it around 1% hgher but have neither any more grain, or time to get supplies sent to me .

The questions i have ar as follows and i realy hope someone can help. I dread the thought of getting the brew done with either batch or fly sparge and not getting to be until 2 am ( after clean up before we go away) and then getting up at 5 in order to drive 550 miles....

questions are

1 What would the expected gravity be of the wort straight from the mashtun. There will be around 7 liters fluid out after subtractions are made for the grain bill plus the deadspace in the mash tun.

2 when it comes to adding water to reach pre boil volume, can i do this by adding water that is already very hot ( ie near boiling) in order to reduce betwen time to the boil, or will this effect the coagulation of protein during the hot break

3 is only 50% realistic? I have had varying efficiency but expect around 75 % or more from batch/flysparge?

4 My understanding is that a no sparge brew is maliter than a sparged brew and that the ort is a high quality. IF the post boil OG was below what i wanted could i just add spraymal boiled and mixed in?

Obviously if i get a pre boil OG that is high then this will not be needed. If the pre boil OG is relatively low ( i can get the efficiency from Beersmith this way) then the spraymaly can go into the boil quite early.
I would much rather have a brew that is stronger then i want and dilute it, than one that is too weak so that i have to strengthen it.

Thanks.

__________________
Deebee is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-19-2009, 03:39 PM   #2
conpewter
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
conpewter's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: East Dundee, Illinois
Posts: 5,106
Liked 40 Times on 35 Posts
Likes Given: 7

Default

1 What would the expected gravity be of the wort straight from the mashtun. There will be around 7 liters fluid out after subtractions are made for the grain bill plus the deadspace in the mash tun.
If you have the room in your mash tun I'd mash with all of the water you'll use in your brew, that way you get as much of the sugar out of the grain as you can without a sparge

2 when it comes to adding water to reach pre boil volume, can i do this by adding water that is already very hot ( ie near boiling) in order to reduce betwen time to the boil, or will this effect the coagulation of protein during the hot break
If you do end up adding water you can add water that is already very hot, won't affect your hot break or anything

3 is only 50% realistic? I have had varying efficiency but expect around 75 % or more from batch/flysparge?
It all depends on your system. You should be able to get into the 60's if you mash with all of your water. I can't say your efficiency with adding water though, I've never done it.

4 My understanding is that a no sparge brew is maliter than a sparged brew and that the ort is a high quality. IF the post boil OG was below what i wanted could i just add spraymal boiled and mixed in?
You should be fine adding boiled malt extract to get up to your OG, that way you'll balance your hops correctly. Although the water to grain ratio does affect attenuation your mash temperature will be the major factor in how much it attenuates, which will be part of whether the beer is malty or not

__________________

"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people." - V

Primary: Nothin
Secondary: Shady Lord RIS, Water to Barleywine, Pumpkin wine, burnt mead
Kegged: Crappy infected mild
Bottles: Apfelwein, 999 Barleywine, Oatmeal Stout, Robust Porter, Robust smoked porter, Simcoe Smash

conpewter is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-25-2009, 09:28 PM   #3
NAVET
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Lansdale, Pa
Posts: 105
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

I am glad I found this post as I have a Q regarding no sparge brewing. Realizing you will have a lower efficiency without sparging, how do you adjust for the lower efficiency in the grain bill? I realize you just add to the grain bill, but is there a particular % or is it just a guesstimation?

__________________

A "Veteran" -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America," for an amount of "up to, and including his life." That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today, who no longer understand that fact.

NAVET is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-26-2009, 04:49 PM   #4
Saccharomyces
Be good to your yeast...
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Saccharomyces's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Pflugerville, Texas
Posts: 5,443
Liked 77 Times on 51 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Check out my thread :

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/i-lo...rewing-140972/

With no-sparge, your efficiency (assuming 100% conversion -- you have to adjust your mash pH and have a good crush!) is determined entirely by grain absorption and dead loss.

For example, in my system grain absorption is .1 gallons per pound because I recirculate with a pump, which sets the grainbed well. Brew in a bag is supposedly .1 gal/pound as well because lifting the bag out you can drain it pretty well. If you just runoff from a cooler expect .125 gallons per pound to be held back.

Efficiency is computed as total extract - loss to grain absorption - dead loss.

If I have 10# of 2-row with 81% potential extract, that gives me 46 * .81 * 10 = 368 total extract points. I'll assume I want 5.25 gal after boil, dead loss in the mash tun is 1 quart, and boiloff is 1 gal/hr. This gives me a pre-boil volume of 6.5 gallons. I'll lose .1 * 10 = 1 gallon to absorption, so I need to have a total of 7.5 gallons of water. In my setup this all goes into the mash tun at the start of the mash.

Pre-boil, my gravity will be 368 / 7.5 = 49 points or 1.049, assuming I got 100% conversion (I typically do, unless I screw up the water adjustment and miss my 5.2-5.4 pH range). Due to absorption to grain and dead space, I will have 6.25 gallons in the kettle, or 49 * 6.25 = 307 extract points. Dead loss and grain absorption is retaining the other 1.25 * 49 = 61 extract points... lost wort. (Be sure to play taps for your lost wort) Post boil, my gravity will be 307 / 5.25 = 1.058. My efficiency to kettle is therefore 307 / 368 = 83%!

If you play with the numbers using different volumes you will discover that the key to getting reasonable efficiency in no sparge brewing is to load ALL of the liquid into the mash tun at once; either at the start of the mash, or prior to running off. If I mashed at, say, 1.25 qt/lb, and just topped off in the kettle, the mash gravity would be MUCH higher than 1.049, which means that my efficiency would be MUCH lower because the grain would be retaining a much more sugary wort. Your 50% number would be pretty close in that situation. The reality is that no sparge brewing can get you within 10% of your "normal" sparged efficiency with any beer, provided your mash tun is large enough to hold all of the water needed!

__________________
[How to Calculate Mash Efficiency | Do I Need a Yeast Starter? | My Ghetto Fermentation Chamber | Twitter | 6 Gal. HDPE Fermenters | Slanting Yeast | No Sparge Brewing]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soperbrew
big brother only monitors facebook and untappd
Saccharomyces is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-28-2009, 01:43 AM   #5
NAVET
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Lansdale, Pa
Posts: 105
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Forgive me, I'm just trying to wrap my head around this.
Saccharomyces, how does your calculation compare to the one given in John Palmers book? Or are they simply two different routes to the same destination?

__________________

A "Veteran" -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America," for an amount of "up to, and including his life." That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today, who no longer understand that fact.

NAVET is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-28-2009, 02:23 AM   #6
jkarp
Beer Herder
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
jkarp's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Elizabeth, CO
Posts: 2,105
Liked 33 Times on 29 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

That's your best explanation yet of the numbers Sacc. Good work!

LONG LIVE NO SPARGE!

__________________
jkarp is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
About this recipe I planned kingoslo Recipes/Ingredients 1 09-22-2009 01:10 PM
Planned Brew Sessions That Don't Happen jzal8 General Beer Discussion 12 04-07-2008 07:53 PM
My first brew didn't exactly go as planned... Benny Blanco Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 2 10-18-2007 05:36 PM
Double Brew Weekend Planned 6/23-6/24 Brewsmith Recipes/Ingredients 5 06-24-2007 06:53 AM
Feedback on planned equipment/first brew please. Bobby_M Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 12 08-15-2006 07:25 PM