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Old 05-09-2011, 12:41 PM   #21
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Default Evolving recipe 1.2

Based on input so far here is another evolution of one of our recipes. We're thinking to do a full 10.50 gal batch and split it, (1 with Westmalle and one with T-58).

Here are some notes. Our SRM compared to the specs from BeerAdvocate is a bit low. My BLAM is under something or my kids are using it as a frisby so I can't use it at the moment. Do we increase chocolate malt, carafa, change the syrups or a weighted increase of all three? I am leaning toward D-180 for the dark fruit and hue. I liked the hops authenticity gio mentioned so they are in. Using Tinseth for pellets the IBU's come up exactly.

Again, nothing in stone here, still an evolving baseline on where our interests are driving us for the first trial.


Pannepot OFA (Variation 1.2)

SPECIFICATIONS
OG - 1.100
FG - 1.025
ABV - 10%
SRM - 50
IBU - 27

WATER
8.0 Gallons

FERMENTABLES
12.75 lbs. Dingeman's Pilsner
3.00 lbs. German Pilsner
1.50 lbs. D-180 Candi Syrup
0.50 lbs. Special B
0.25 lbs. Flaked Maize
0.125 lbs. Carafa II
0.125 lbs. Chocolate Malt (Belgian, British, or German?)

HOPS
2.00 Bramling Cross 6.4% (60 min)
1.00 Hallaertau MittelFrüh 4.2% (30 min)

SPICES
3.00 gm Coriander Seed @ 2 min.
5.00 gm Fresh Orange Zest@ 2 min. (sour orange or sweet?)
1.00 gm Cinnamon @ 2 min.
1.00 gm Thyme @ 2 min.

YEAST
T-58 (batch split #1)
WLP 530 (Batch split #2)

OTHER
1 cap servomyces

METHOD
Single infusion mash, (no sparge), @ 156F 80 minutes. 90 min boil. Servomyces. Syrup at flameout. Aged in either surface calulated white oak slats, (charred?) or barrel aged.

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Old 05-09-2011, 02:52 PM   #22
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For the blind tasting ranking, that means they are quality near the same, though flavor does not have to match. Though they are in deed brewed a few miles away, so some influence would not be far fetched.

I like the look of that recipe. Again, I like the idea of being able to add spices and grains if needed rather than figuring out what to avoid and remove. I would initially go without oaking for the same reason; one less flavor to fight around to see if we have the brew right. OFA I figure is the same as the reserve, minus the oak aging.

My take on the recipe will be different hops, as I do not have access to the ones mentioned, and I am a fan of the supporting of local businesses. I would go with the T-58 for my recipe, and the fermentation schedule I outlined in my first post.

There is a '?' on your spices for sweet or sour orange zest. I am just going to go with the oranges I have at the local market. My wife is actually suggesting mandarin orange, so may do that to see what happens.

I like the fall-back to the D-180 syrup. Though there was more cherry than darker fruit and plum, there was still some there with caramel notes. Probably just less than the Westy, and spices will bring out the other sharper notes.

You have no sparge mentioned. Was that from my recipe notes? I may have my terms wrong, I say single infusion as in no decoction mashing. I would still sparge, as I need it for efficiency points.

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Old 05-09-2011, 03:42 PM   #23
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If I were to go for just a Pannepot clone I'd drop the cocoa and pecans from my recipe.
Getting the right yeast is definitely important, T-58 or Westmalle would be the only ones I'd consider.
I think a FG of 1.025 is too high, I know Pannepot has a higher FG but I think it would be around 1.018.
The key with the spices is going to be restraint, as they are very subtle and are almost not detectable. I think the orange peel could go either way sweet or bitter.
If you go the specialty grains route (which is more or less what Urbain does with Pannepot) you don't want (or need) to do a decoction.

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Old 05-09-2011, 04:26 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saq View Post
...I think a FG of 1.025 is too high, I know Pannepot has a higher FG but I think it would be around 1.018.
The key with the spices is going to be restraint, as they are very subtle and are almost not detectable. I think the orange peel could go either way sweet or bitter...
Here are the stats I got from BeerAdvocate:

EBC:99, IBU:27, OG:1100, FG:1025, ABV:10%
Hops: Bramling Cross, Hallaertau MF

I have an Imp Stout that had an OG of 1.112 and an FG of 1.030; it read as rich, not sweet (damned good brew, my wife's favorite of the ones I have done). Therefor I am not too concerned with a higher FG. I say go with what you want for the OG/FG, just try to keep the ABV the same.

I see no reason not to go with T-58. It is what they use, and if we have a fermentation schedule, why mess with the yeast? SUU, if you want to do a split batch by all means go for it.

If I had the capabilities as far as temp control goes, I would do two 2.5g batches, but with different spicing amounts or ratios. Or, just do a control batch of the recipe so I know what the brew tastes like without the spices.

Saq; would you want to brew the recipe that SUU and I have been kicking back and forth, or the recipe you posted? Trying to keep track of the variables we are hitting.
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Old 05-09-2011, 05:05 PM   #25
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My recipe looked something like this:

13.5 lb Belgian Pilsner
3.0 lb CaraMunich III
0.3 lb Carafa II
0.15 lb Chocolate Malt
0.15 lb Coffee Malt
1.0 lb Flaked Maize
2.0 lb D2 Belgian Candi Syrup

OG: 1.099 FG: 1.025
Boil Time: 90 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons

Spices:
I have to check my notes for the exact amounts of the spices, but I believe it was about
0.4oz Coriander
0.5oz Sweet Orange Peel
? Thyme (about 1/2tsp I think)
? Cinnamon (about 1tsp I think)

Hops:
3.5 AAU Northern Brewer @ 80 min
7 AAU Columbus @10 min

Mash:
Enhanced double decoction mash with a protein rest at 122 and sacchrification at 156.

I plan on brewing this again with some changes:
- De Struise uses candi sugar and candi syrup so I might use half D2 and half amber candi syrup like I do in my Rochefort clone.
- It's way too dark and bitter. 0.6 lb of dark malts is too much. I'll probably reduce the amounts of the carafa, coffee, and chocolate malts, and possibly use belgian debittered instead of carafa. Maybe 0.2lb Carafa, and 0.1lb each of Chocolate and Coffee. Or maybe even less. I might reduce the CaraMunich too and increase the Pilsner.
- The fermentation went well. I pitched cool and let it warm up to the mid 70s and then held in a warm temperature for almost two weeks. I then racked to a secondary and cold crashed it and cold conditioned at 50 for 8 weeks. I'll repitch more yeast when I bottle.

De Struise uses 4% sugar and 4% syrup and they get it from http://www.belgosuc.be/EN/index.html

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Old 05-09-2011, 06:12 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gio View Post
My recipe looked something like this:

I plan on brewing this again with some changes:
- De Struise uses candi sugar and candi syrup so I might use half D2 and half amber candi syrup like I do in my Rochefort clone.
- It's way too dark and bitter. 0.6 lb of dark malts is too much. I'll probably reduce the amounts of the carafa, coffee, and chocolate malts, and possibly use belgian debittered instead of carafa. Maybe 0.2lb Carafa, and 0.1lb each of Chocolate and Coffee. Or maybe even less. I might reduce the CaraMunich too and increase the Pilsner.
- The fermentation went well. I pitched cool and let it warm up to the mid 70s and then held in a warm temperature for almost two weeks. I then racked to a secondary and cold crashed it and cold conditioned at 50 for 8 weeks. I'll repitch more yeast when I bottle.

De Struise uses 4% sugar and 4% syrup and they get it from http://www.belgosuc.be/EN/index.html
gio, we've never brewed this so in your opinion how much would you consider a good balanced weight of black malt?

I need to order a few to get a bead on flavors and ingredients.

Tall, it sounds like we have 3 distinct recipes sizing up. They all sound good. Looking forward to the taste testing
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Old 05-09-2011, 06:52 PM   #27
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Aye. We have a Saq, Gio, and SUU/Tall recipe. The first two with working on previous attempts, the last being gathered from sources and worked out as a fresh recipe. Should be quite fun to see how it works out.

Assuming we are using your (SUU's) candi syrups, all these brews should be hitting maturity and tasting readiness at the same time. That is, if all of us are ready to brew this up the first chance we get, which I know I am.

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Old 05-09-2011, 07:07 PM   #28
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i am in on the bottle exchange if you want another batch to try... SUU... sent you a PM with my sugar order...

Thanks

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Old 05-09-2011, 07:36 PM   #29
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Recipe looks good to me. Special B is certainly the way to go for the crystal, that was my plan until I started milling and realized I didn't have any. Hope it turns out well..

I really liked the way the half of my batch that I added cherries/brett/oak to turned out, the clean half was just too big/dry/thin for my tastes.

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Old 05-09-2011, 07:47 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldsock View Post
Recipe looks good to me. Special B is certainly the way to go for the crystal, that was my plan until I started milling and realized I didn't have any. Hope it turns out well..

I really liked the way the half of my batch that I added cherries/brett/oak to turned out, the clean half was just too big/dry/thin for my tastes.
Glad to see you on here!
My aim is to avoid ending too dry like you did before.
For the spices, I will measure them all out, and make a judgment call on brewing day if it seems like it is too much or not.
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