New Giveaway - Wort Monster Conical Fermeneter!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Recipes/Ingredients > Pannepot (Old Fisherman's Ale) Clone Thread




Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-07-2011, 10:33 PM   #11
saq
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tucson
Posts: 788
Liked 26 Times on 10 Posts

Default

I don't find Pannepot to have a higher OG/FG than Westy12. Urbains small brewing place is literally just 5 minutes down the street from St Sixtus in Westvleteren and he definitely has taken a big influence from them in his quads.
I agree its not as malty as Westvleteren nor does it quite have the really dark character to it. I need to trade for a bottle of this beer so I can get some more inspiration from it.
When I brewed my take this was the recipe I used.

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 7.54 gal
Estimated OG: 1.091 SG
Estimated Color: 32.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 25.7 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
13.50 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 75.00 %
0.25 lb Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 1.39 %
0.25 lb Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 1.39 %
0.25 lb Carastan (37.0 SRM) Grain 1.39 %
0.25 lb Chocolate Malt BYOB (340.0 SRM) Grain 1.39 %
0.25 lb Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 1.39 %
0.25 lb Special B Malt (160.0 SRM) Grain 1.39 %
1.00 oz Styrian Goldings [5.10 %] (90 min) Hops 19.2 IBU
1.00 oz Styrian Goldings [5.10 %] (20 min) Hops 6.5 IBU
1.00 gm Cinnamon (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1.00 items Servomyces (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
2.00 gm Coriander Seed (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
2.00 gm Grains of Paradise (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
2.00 gm Pure Ground Cocoa Powder (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
3.00 oz Pecans (Mash 10.0 min) Misc
5.00 gm Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
2.00 lb Dark 1 Belgian Candi Syrup (80.0 SRM) Sugar 11.11 %
1.00 lb Dark 2 Belgian Candi Syrup (160.0 SRM) Sugar 5.56 %
1 Pkgs Tripel Reserve (Allagash) [Cultured] Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 15.00 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
75 min Mash In Add 22.50 qt of water at 165.0 F 152.0 F

I'd definitely like to try it with the D90, and I may have previously mentioned this beer really needs Westmalle or T58 yeast. The Allagash yeast which I love in blonde Belgian beers was too spicy to really work in this beer the same way.
I also ended up filtering the beer because of the raw cocoa powder, which doesn't dissolve nearly at all. I had a huge sludge in the filter from the cocoa powder when I was done.



__________________
saq is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-08-2011, 09:56 AM   #12
gio
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 207
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

I just found this thread. I attempted a Pannepot clone a couple of months ago (it's still in secondary and I'll probably bottle in a week or two). Although it's not quite done, I plan on brewing another attempt next weekend. I'll post more tomorrow but here is what I've learned (at least what I think I remember right now):

- Listen to the podcast where they interview one of the De Struisse brewers. He gives a lot of useful information.
- The dark malts they use are chocolate, coffee, and carafa. It's easy to use too much of them and your Pannepot clone and if you do, it will taste more like a stout. There is also a belgian crystal in there (I used CaraMunich). The big change I'll make in my second attempt is to reduce the amounts of the dark malts.
- The four spices are pretty much agreed upon (sweet orange peel, thyme, coriander, cinnamon). The actual amounts are still up for debate but I find that most recipes use so little spices that they are almost unnoticeable.
- To finish at a fairly high gravity of 1.025 I mashed on the warm side (156, I think), and use a rather large percentage of crystal malts (3lb CaraMunich if I remember correctly).
- T-58 is what they use and I see no reason to use anything else. It's a great yeast, its cheap and you won't need to make a starter. It has a wonderfully spicey flavor that I haven't seen with the liquid Belgian yeasts (such as Wyeast 1762, 3787, 1214, etc)
- I used only D2 belgian candi syrup but I think De Struise uses a mix of dark and light candy sugars. Next time I plan on using half D2 and half amber candi syrup.
- The base malt is Belgian pilsner.
- like most belgian you can let this ferment warm. I pitched in the mid-60s and let it warm up and held it at a warm temperature for 2 weeks before racking to a secondary and cold crashing it. I don't remember the exact temps, I'll look it up tomorrow.

I used an enhanced decoction mash with a protein rest at 122 and sacchrification rest at 156. Hops should be bramling cross and hallertauer MF but it doesn't really matter so much for this beer so I substituted kent goldings and hallertauer hersbrucker.



__________________

Primary 1: Oskar Blues Gordon Clone
Secondary 2: Pannepot Old Fishermans Ale Clone
Secondary 3: Pre-prohibition American Lager
Bottle Conditioning: Weihenstephaner Hefeweissbier
Bottle Conditioning: Cherry Wheat
Bottle Conditioning: Rochefort 10 Clone
Drinking: Westvleteren 12 Clone

gio is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-08-2011, 04:25 PM   #13
Tall_Yotie
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 951
Liked 9 Times on 9 Posts
Likes Given: 8

Default

Saq,

How did your brew turn out in comparison to the real deal? What adjustments would you suggest making? I would rather avoid adding the pecans and cocoa powder. The chocolate flavor seemed to be more of a suggestion of it, not something that came very apparent.

Gio,

Thanks for the notes, very informative. Could you post up your recipe when you have a chance? It would be great to be able to compare what everyone has used.


Does anyone know of a source to get this beer in the States (West Coast preferred)? The bottles I have are few, and unfortunately after a heat wave they lost some flavor, so tasting notes for me are based on a low-quality bottle and memory. I can get Pannepuet Old Monk's, but that uses just plain sugar and no candi syrup.

__________________
Tall_Yotie is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-08-2011, 06:59 PM   #14
CSI
Senior Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
CSI's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 559
Liked 69 Times on 57 Posts
Likes Given: 123

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall_Yotie View Post
Saq,

How did your brew turn out in comparison to the real deal? What adjustments would you suggest making? I would rather avoid adding the pecans and cocoa powder. The chocolate flavor seemed to be more of a suggestion of it, not something that came very apparent.

Gio,

Thanks for the notes, very informative. Could you post up your recipe when you have a chance? It would be great to be able to compare what everyone has used.


Does anyone know of a source to get this beer in the States (West Coast preferred)? The bottles I have are few, and unfortunately after a heat wave they lost some flavor, so tasting notes for me are based on a low-quality bottle and memory. I can get Pannepuet Old Monk's, but that uses just plain sugar and no candi syrup.
We tried 3 in-state LHBS's on Friday. Most carry only the Monk's but no OFA. Ive been looking online for the real deal. The Belgian Shop has it 330 ml on sale here:

http://shop.belgianshop.com/acatalog/info_3_BB30083Z.html

with the 750ml Reserva OFA here:

http://shop.belgianshop.com/acatalog/info_4_BB30048Z.html

They both appear to be OFA but I would call first to make sure.
__________________
CSI is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-08-2011, 10:58 PM   #15
Tall_Yotie
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 951
Liked 9 Times on 9 Posts
Likes Given: 8

Default

Soooo pricey! Was hoping to get it for cheaper not via eBay. Belgian Shop has good stuff, but at a definite premium.

To those that have tasted Pannepot, with the lower dark fruit tones do you think it is a lighter candi syrup or just less of it? I still am using Westy as a baseline.

Heck, would it be a good idea to take the Westy recipe that either Saq or SUU has, change the yeast, add spices, and switch the candi syrup to a lighter one? Perhaps a little chocolate malt to get that cocoa edge?

And as far as the OG/FG, from my research it is 1.100 and 10.25., so that is what I am going to aim for.

__________________
Tall_Yotie is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-09-2011, 01:15 AM   #16
CSI
Senior Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
CSI's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 559
Liked 69 Times on 57 Posts
Likes Given: 123

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall_Yotie View Post
Heck, would it be a good idea to take the Westy recipe that either Saq or SUU has, change the yeast, add spices, and switch the candi syrup to a lighter one? Perhaps a little chocolate malt to get that cocoa edge?
Tempting to start with a known winner. Saq, did you drop by De Struise Brouwers on your last visit? Just curious how similar the base recipe might be with a Westvleteren.

The beer reviews of OFA Reserva all indicate some dark fruit nose and palate so I think anything less than D-90 or DarkCandi's D might miss a flavor point. Given the dark fruit palate from D-180 we're going to start with the darkest syrup first.

With the recipes varying more with this one we could consider fanning out and trying the best of our top two or three recipes and then swap for a taste vote. We're likely going to lean toward the minimal recipe and build from there.
__________________
CSI is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-09-2011, 02:24 AM   #17
Tall_Yotie
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 951
Liked 9 Times on 9 Posts
Likes Given: 8

Default

Agreed on the minimal. It is easier to figure out what you need to add rather than remove.

Hell, if my Saq recipe brew was ready to drink or the recipe you (SUU) did, I would boil up the spices, cool it, and add a bit to a freshly cracked bottle and see what it does. Or, have a glass shot glass with the spice water, cooled, near the glass to you can smell the spices as you drink. Might not tell too much, but a quick easy experiment.

__________________
Tall_Yotie is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-09-2011, 05:23 AM   #18
saq
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tucson
Posts: 788
Liked 26 Times on 10 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall_Yotie View Post
Saq,

How did your brew turn out in comparison to the real deal? What adjustments would you suggest making? I would rather avoid adding the pecans and cocoa powder. The chocolate flavor seemed to be more of a suggestion of it, not something that came very apparent.

Gio,

Thanks for the notes, very informative. Could you post up your recipe when you have a chance? It would be great to be able to compare what everyone has used.


Does anyone know of a source to get this beer in the States (West Coast preferred)? The bottles I have are few, and unfortunately after a heat wave they lost some flavor, so tasting notes for me are based on a low-quality bottle and memory. I can get Pannepuet Old Monk's, but that uses just plain sugar and no candi syrup.
Mine came decently close, I had some organic raw cacao powder I wanted to add and I've started adding pecans to the mash of a quad now and then because it adds an awesome flavor. The biggest problem I had with mine was the wrong yeast choice. The allagash yeat is a bold peppery, spicey which was totally the wrong yeast for what was going on.
I didn't find any of the normal Pannepot but I did find Pannepot Reserva which is awesome, which I ordered 4 of yesterday http://www.wallywine.com/p-74546-de-struise-pannepot-reserva-limit-4-bottles-per-customer-330ml.aspx

The Grand Reserva is even better, I had that at Delerium Cafe in Brussels and its pretty much the best beer I've ever had.
__________________
saq is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-09-2011, 06:55 AM   #19
Tall_Yotie
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 951
Liked 9 Times on 9 Posts
Likes Given: 8

Default

So.... who wants to do 14mo French Oak barrel aging?

"I've started adding pecans to the mash of a quad now and then because it adds an awesome flavor"

So does it seem to add to making it more like Pannepot? Asking as it is easy to mess with a recipe to tune to one's tastes, though diverging from what the original aim was. My concern with your recipe is that is seems to have a lot going on in it, and was hoping we could figure out a simplification. Same question regarding the cocoa.

SUU says his Westy12 recipe with the debittered malt is nearly dead on, and that is simple like your Old World recipe, though your New World seemed to have gotten better marks.

I have a bottle of Reserve that I was given in Brugges, but I fear it has lost its luster due to the heat wave that fried my Pannepot and Westvleteren reserve. Will crack it open for a special occasion and see how it fairs.

As far as your recipe being close, you think it mostly was the yeast? As these Belgian ales tend to take a while to mature I want to make sure we all go into this with the best formed recipe and plan as we can at the time.

__________________
Tall_Yotie is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-09-2011, 10:35 AM   #20
CSI
Senior Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
CSI's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 559
Liked 69 Times on 57 Posts
Likes Given: 123

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall_Yotie View Post
So.... who wants to do 14mo French Oak barrel aging?

"I've started adding pecans to the mash of a quad now and then because it adds an awesome flavor"

So does it seem to add to making it more like Pannepot? Asking as it is easy to mess with a recipe to tune to one's tastes, though diverging from what the original aim was. My concern with your recipe is that is seems to have a lot going on in it, and was hoping we could figure out a simplification. Same question regarding the cocoa.

SUU says his Westy12 recipe with the debittered malt is nearly dead on, and that is simple like your Old World recipe, though your New World seemed to have gotten better marks.

I have a bottle of Reserve that I was given in Brugges, but I fear it has lost its luster due to the heat wave that fried my Pannepot and Westvleteren reserve. Will crack it open for a special occasion and see how it fairs.

As far as your recipe being close, you think it mostly was the yeast? As these Belgian ales tend to take a while to mature I want to make sure we all go into this with the best formed recipe and plan as we can at the time.
Reasonable $90 20L white oak barrel: http://www.barrelsonline.com/BrowseProducts.aspx?DepID=4

We might spring for it given saq's review of the Reserva. In blind taste reviews Pannepot always ranks closely with Westvleteren 12.


__________________
CSI is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Allagash Tripel Clone or Duvel Clone recipe? jbenedetto Recipes/Ingredients 33 01-19-2013 03:08 AM
AVBC: Imperial IPA Clone clone dropitlikesitshot Recipes/Ingredients 1 08-12-2012 11:08 PM
Pannepot Clone Recipe gio Recipes/Ingredients 5 06-24-2012 03:33 PM
Pannepot inspired dark strong belgian Maarten Recipes/Ingredients 4 03-07-2011 09:20 PM
Using All Hallertau in Warsteiner Clone, Clone Beers Variation yetanothersteve Recipes/Ingredients 2 11-21-2009 09:48 PM